Minelab 17000 vs X-Terra 705

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Minelab 17000 vs X-Terra 705 Empty Minelab 17000 vs X-Terra 705

Post  Newhunter on Mon May 18, 2009 6:05 pm

I am thinking of buying the new X terra 705 and selling the 17000. would the new 705 be better than the 17000 in prospecting mode on gold or not. Just would like some info from people who have the X terra 70 on what depth they get from that detector.
Thanks Gary

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Post  Inhere on Mon May 18, 2009 7:35 pm

G'day Newhunter, this link may interest you.

http://tinyurl.com/ojxym6
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Post  nero_design on Tue May 19, 2009 1:16 am

Just my personal thoughts here: I feel the X-Terra 705 "Dual package" would be a better VLF Gold detector than the XT 17000. The Dual set gives you the Elliptical High Frequency Coil (18.75khz) as well as the Concentric Coil...to allow you to maximize the use of the Prospecting feature it possesses. The XT was a nugget hunter that came out in the mid-1990s and it too was a very impressive detector in it's day. But the improvements over the last few years means you can probably get a lot more out of the newer X-Terra.

Whilst both are capable of finding Gold, the XT 17000 is a much older detector with many limitations. The battery pack setup alone tends to lend it a limited lifetime as the terminals are known to snap and give way from time to time (due to the way the battery compartment operates. By comparison, the X-Terra 705 is a more versatile, lightweight and capable detector. It has less energy consumption, better Ground Balance and lots of whistles and bells that serve a purpose and make your detecting hobby more enjoyable.

Whilst the XT series is certainly sensitive, I've found that over the years some have lost a little of their sensitivity and others have had problems with the plastic housing becoming a little brittle with age. If you get one in good condition, it's a much more affordable alternative to the new X-Terras. Sensitivity comes close but the 705 is a little sharper and possible a little stronger.

Cheers,

Marco
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Post  forester01 on Tue May 19, 2009 5:32 pm

G'day fellas,

you're right on the button there, Marco, re the tendency of the battery connectors inside the plastic sliding compartment to wear through. After having repairing them (not a difficult job) I remedied the problem (at least as far as I'm aware 'cos I've now sold the unit) by taping the wires at the 'bend' section where the plug connectors meet. This reinforcing seemed to fix the problem.

I hate admit this, but I found more gold with the 17000 than with any detector since - probably because I was fifteen years younger and putting in a lot more time on the goldfields.

Regards
Mike W
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Minelab 17000 vs X-Terra 705 Empty Re: Minelab 17000 vs X-Terra 705

Post  Jonathan Porter on Wed May 20, 2009 7:15 am

The XT 17000 is a better gold only machine compared to the X-terra range, it also has the two frequencies to choose from depending on coil and depth of ground with the 32 Khz frequency being the best for small gold using the 12" elliptical DD coil. The auto Ground balance feature of the XT 17000 is the exact same algorithm used in the current GPX series and has proved itself time and time again since its inception in the GT 16000 back in late 1987/'88.

At the time there were three coils available for the XT 17000, the supplied 8" Goldsearch DD, 12" elliptical DD and the 12" elliptical concentric (which got a bad rap for reliability issues but was actually a little ripper in quiet ground using the high frequency mode). Frieda and I went professional on the XT 17000 and did really well right up until the SD2000 in 1995, you could use it in Tracking mode in just about every ground type with all the coils especially once you got your head around flicking from Tracking to Fixed and back to Tracking again to force the GB along.

I also used a large 20" Barrie Johnson DD coil (early Nugget Finder coils) with great success in late '94 with slugs up to 55 grams coming out using the low Freq 6.4 Khz mode, I remember one piece coming out of extremely mineralised cap rock at Quinns (not far from Meekatharra) at an amazing 9 plus inches, for us in those days that was an impressive depth for a VLF detector. The experiences I had with the XT 17000 using the 6.4 Khz mode and a large coil set me up for the SD2000 using the large garbage bin lid coil chasing deep gold straight off the bat.

The XT 17000 will provide better sensitivity to small gold over the X-terra due to the higher frequency of 32 Khz over 18.75, the XT's had hassles with the battery compartment, but savvy operators soon went to the Minelab NiMh battery packs anyway which solved a lot of issues. I have a lot of fond memories of the XT 17000, they really were the best VLF machine around at the time for our Australian conditions punching in far deeper than the Whites or Fisher counter parts with the added benefit of having a true automatic ground balance. Minelab still make a modern counterpart of the XT 17000 with two updated models coming out since 1992, the XT 18000 (around 1996) and the latest variant which is still sold the Eureka Gold which have even higher frequencies up around 60 Khz (from memory) which should make them even more sensitive to small gold. If contemplating one of these machines try to target areas with less mineralisation with a history of small gold (Tiboorburra springs to mind here) and don't be afraid to run a lower frequency especially if the mineralisation is extreme as sometimes less noise from the detector equals better depth and sensitivity to targets.

Years ago in the Pilbara Frieda and I found in excess of 900+ pieces of gold in four weeks totaling just on 8 ounces using two XT 17000's (average size was point .28 of a gram 0.28 gms off known ground (well known old patches)), we would get really excited when we hit a + 1 gram bit (from memory our biggest bit for the duration weighed in at 2 grams), the amazing thing is the majority of that type of gold is still there because the newer technology doesn't quiet have the sensitivity for the really really small stuff (wet your finger to pick it up type of gold). A savvy operator who knows what the machines limitations are can easily target areas where the VLF detectors really shine especially with the elevated gold price theses days.

Hope this helps,

JP
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Minelab 17000 vs X-Terra 705 Empty Re: Minelab 17000 vs X-Terra 705

Post  nero_design on Wed May 20, 2009 9:50 am

I suspect that the reason the XT 17000 was finding more gold back then was because it was about the only VLF choice in it's range. If they were still made today, this would be a good option. Unfortunately the remaining models are aging. Reminds me of the guy who says he finds more Gold with his Coiltek Coil.... but this is obviously because he ONLY uses his Coiltek Coil.

The Eureka does indeed have a 60khz setting and it is very sensitive to small Gold. Yet 20khz is considered by most to be "ideal" when it comes to small gold at varying depth. Hence the number of manufacturers making Gold-hunting VLFs in this frequency range. But I find the Eureka may be getting a little long in the tooth (as is the older XT 17000) and the disadvantages of some detectors often outweigh their usefulness when compared to other machines. With the X-Terra 705 proving to be more sensitive that the older X-Terra 70, I'd say it offers better noise cancel & GB plus a stronger emission field -and therefore more- than the Eureka in many situations.

/Just my thoughts.

Cheers,

Marco
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Post  Beer Beeper on Wed May 20, 2009 10:34 am

Good posts. I bought a BFO in about 1972-3 and TR in 1975-6. Then I got involved in too much boozing with Rock and Roll, long hair in the 70's and early 80's that set me back. After waking up after a drunk on too many rugs and grass lawns after parties, then I cleaned up my act with Jesus Christ. I got started late looking for gold using a Garrett Ground hog circuit in 1986 then a GT 16000 in 1989 and someone people talked me into buying both a Compass Gold Scanner and then the Fisher Gold Bug in 1990 which Peter Bridge sold me and said to me that the Minelab's auto GB was just a Whites copy. I think he was wrong? and I wish I would have not listened to him at the time and stuck with a GT 16000. Then went back to using the FT 16000 in 1993 but I never owned a XT 17000, going straight to the SD 2100 in 1997 and SD 2200 in 2001 and now my GP 3000. It seems I am always behind and not caught up to the latest machines. I may spring for a new GPX 5000 if it is something special. Yet the old-timers found more gold ounces than us, kicking around with those high tech shovels and picks, go figure.

Marco wrote, "With the X-Terra 705 proving to be more sensitive that the older X-Terra 70..."

I thought the X-Terra 70 and the X-Terra 705 had the exactly the same sensitivity in Prospecting Mode??

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Post  Newhunter on Mon May 25, 2009 10:02 am

Would some one with a 705 or the 70 do an air test with a 5 cent coin and let me know the distance you can hear it in prospecting mode.
Thanks Gary.

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Post  nero_design on Mon May 25, 2009 11:55 am

I've already done this last month in case someone wanted to know... but I don't have my notes here. The 5c, 10c, 20c & $1 coin all came up at a greater distance from the X-Terra 707 coil than the X-Terra 70. The difference was a consistent 10cm more on the 707. Both detectors were locked down on the same surface at the same location.

Curiously, a 1.5gram and a 14 gram nugget responded at the same distance for both detectors with louder and more distant response to the larger nugget of course. Otherwise, both detectors seemed identical in response.

Farthest responsive coin target was a 50c coin (larger surface area). The air dumbs down the signal compared to an "in-the-ground-response". But air tests do show how sensitive one coil is compared to another. I just tested the 705 for you so you'd have something to work with (see below). Measurements were precise.

X-Terra 705 - Distance 14 inches - Elliptical Coil - Prospecting Mode - Target = 20c coin (flat edge).
X-Terra 705 - Distance 7 inches - Concentric Coil - Coin/Relic Mode - Target = 20c coin (flat edge).
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Post  Nebuchadnezzar on Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:50 pm

There's a few I can't agree with here. The Fisher in my book was the superior machine back in mid 90's. Easily pick up pieces 0.1gm and for a good operator even smaller then that. I used the XT 1700 as well but did not feel it was superior, maybe b/c I was comfortable with the Fisher I don't know. If you were looking for gold in new areas then the smaller pieces almost always turn up first and I would be surprised if the 1700 could punch deeper under all conditions. With the Fisher I always felt I had the advantage over 1700 users.
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Post  Fisherman on Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:48 pm

nero_design wrote:


X-Terra 705 - Distance 14 inches - Elliptical Coil - Prospecting Mode - Target = 20c coin (flat edge).
X-Terra 705 - Distance 7 inches - Concentric Coil - Coin/Relic Mode - Target = 20c coin (flat edge).

G day all
Marco just wondering if the above results are around the wrong way.
I used the x-terra 70 for over 12 months over a variety of ground and found the MF concentric coil in either mode punched much deeper than the HF DD elliptical coil.
I did air tests between the coils myself on coins, rings etc and always found that the MF concentric had better depth.
My only regret was i never bothered to take that coil to try on any trips to the goldfields to see how it handled the hot ground.

Brett
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Post  nero_design on Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:09 am

Hi Brett,
It's been a few months since I did that test and I can only assume that my notes were translated correctly when I wrote the results here - I'm pretty sure they were because I took the time to write them down as the experiments were conducted. Note that Prospecting Mode is MUCH more sensitive than Coin/Relic mode. And the DD coil is a more stable coil when it comes to EMI - and this test was conducted indoors (usually very unscientific) and near neon light transformers. But, as I noted above, Prospecting Mode is much more sensitive than the Coin Mode is. This accounts for the response at greater distance. Note that from memory, this seemed to apply more to the larger coin than to other targets. Coin/Relic mode is nowhere near as sensitive as Prospecting Mode and I suspect that this is because a stronger signal relay is required in order to send the supplied information to the processor for accurate TID (Target Identification). The X-Terra 705 is in turn more responsive and submits a slightly faster recovery response to a target than the earlier X-Terra 70.

In my test between those two coils, the response in Prospecting Mode simply needed to be a repeatable signal of any obvious strength. But in Coin & Relic mode, the signal needed to be strong enough to trigger a target ID response from the detector, and that meant the target needed to be much closer to the coil to generate a "solid" hit. I was careful to secure both detectors and each coil to the very same position. These were air tests though and as such can only serve one purpose: and that is to show a strength comparison only between either detectors or coils. Use of the same detectors and coils in mineralized ground is usually a noticeably different result.

Cheers!

Marco
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Post  shangers on Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:40 pm

Newhunter wrote:Would some one with a 705 or the 70 do an air test with a 5 cent coin and let me know the distance you can hear it in prospecting mode.
Thanks Gary.

what is a air test only new to all this

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Post  philski on Fri May 18, 2012 12:45 am

i lost my hearing with a 17000 and now have a 70. It is better by miles for sure. I can only imagine the 705 would be even better again. as an example tonight I canceled out. Aluminium, steel, copper and a push bike. the 17000 could never do that kind of thing.

And, Huge distances on air tests. 70cm+ small gold nuggets on factory settings 18 con coil
double the 17000 easily

The downside in my opinion are more ergonomics.
the screen does not point towards you. left or right handed, everyone suffers. the grip is way too small, if you have a big hand, or your wearing gloves your going to cramp up. And no provision to move it or the screen.
and you need an extra long thumb to press all the buttons. alien (no wonder we run around in the bush)

A waterproof dd would be smart too, but overall, one wicked machine.
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Post  Wanderer on Fri May 18, 2012 7:10 pm

shangers wrote:
what is a air test only new to all this

Hi Shangers

An "Air Test" is when you test a target with the detector in air, rather than with the target in soil.
Google Youtube and search for "air test" for some examples

Cheers

Bruce
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