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NuggetFinder Coils on GPX models

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Post  TheGoldenChild Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:06 pm

Hi all

small intro about myself.
I used to swing a detector years ago and I'm talking about the days of the GT and FT1600 and thoroughly enjoyed the hobby and getting out of Melbourne. Unfortunately due to circumstances I had to give it up.
Recently I hired a GPX5000 and gave it a swing around Dunolly, picked up a bit of gold and the bug has bitten me again. I have hired the GPX5000 again and will be back in the Triangle in a fortnight to try my luck again. I have recently bought a 2nd hand NuggetFinder 16" Mono SL to use with it since I prefer a bigger coil to cover more ground. I have also being looking at same size Advantage coils. My question is do the Advantage coils work better on GPX range and in what way. I would appreciate feedback on this especially from members that have used both on their machine on different ground types. Also looking at pictures of these coils there seems to be different colour schemes eg Dark grey coil-white writing, Silver coil-red writing, Dark grey coil-black writing. Is there any difference? Don't want to end up buying a fake.
Hope to find big nugget in a fortnight and get my own GPX (well I can dream).
To all the members posting in this forum thank you very much, your information on varying topics has been invaluable to someone getting back into the hobby.

Thanks
Manny
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Post  Guest Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:01 am

Hi Manny

Cant help ya with the Q
But just wanted to wish you good Gold on your
return to the fields. Wink

Bet you loved the 5000 compared to the old GT's

Pete WA Cool

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Post  TheGoldenChild Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:00 am

Thanks Pete

"Bet you loved the 5000 compared to the old GT's"
Worlds apart, but I did like the GT back then, it was the FT that was unbearably noisy which made me swap it for a Midas 500.
Anyway the old machines I couldn't use in the past at some particular high mineralized spots because they got to noisy and unstable but the GPX5000 switched to Enhanced and a bit of fiddling with the knobs and settings seems to handle this type of ground extremely well, very impressed with the short time I have used this unit.



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Post  Beer Beeper Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:21 am

Always buy from an authorized dealer(or reliable friend) to avoid knock-off fakes, also you could check serial numbers. Hope this helps answer some of your questions, this is what a Nugget Finder dealer wrote about the color of the lettering on the coils.

9/21/2010
"The color of the lettering seems to change with different shipments. There is no significance and it does not indicate different models or levels of performance. To be honest, I don't think they have fully decided which color to use! Smile

There is no longer a strain relief at the coil connection. There were problems in Australia and the US with people using tools to tighten and snapping them.

The coil is O-ringed sealed, so you don't have to silicone it. I have tested at depths of 12" with no problems. However, if you plan on spending a lot of time with the coil submerged it might not a bad idea."

11/18/2010
"There have been some changes with the NF Coils. I should have some of the newest versions here next week. I believe the biggest changes have been the addition of a heavy-duty shaft mount. One of the guys told me they drove a small forklift over a prototype and it didn't break! I also understand that a new plastic formula is being used for the housing. It is supposed to be stronger and essentially resistant to UV light. Small adjustments have been made in the windings, but I haven't had a chance to field test them yet, so I can't offer a whole lot more right now. Hopefully we will be getting some feedback coming in soon."

11/21/2010
"The (NF)coils that arrive tomorrow will not be the solids. We hope to have some solid designs early next year."

He also said that NF is coming out with some solid designed coils early next year, the 17 elliptical is one of them to be made available in solid.

I do not know, but other people can help you more by answering your question about if the new models grey colored Advantage coils work better on GPX's than the older models SuperLight white colored NF coils ?

And in general on all detectors how much % of better perfomance do the new grey coils have over the SL white colored coils ?

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Post  TheGoldenChild Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:14 am

thanks for the info Pete, much appreciated .


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Post  Guest Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:28 am


Gday


I have been using the nuggetfinder advantage coils on my 4500 since they first came out and I am very impressed with them, I had an early model one crack but it was replaced no worries, it still operated just fine even when cracked and I was given a satisfactory explanation in regards to the palstics used.

Initially I was attracted by the features of them being lightweight and much more importantly very well built but after some use I found them to be extremely capable in all sorts of ground, I have just added the 30x7 patchfinder and the 12" round mono to my collection.

I used the earlier 16" round sl mono coil (light grey one) a fair bit on my 3500 and it was good for ground coverage and could snag the small pieces too but it had to be swung very slowly, I found it to be a quite lazy coil with a dull signal response, so I cant say that I was that confident with it, later on a mate who has one said he found the exact same thing with his and didnt bother using it very much.

I didnt like it when used on the 4500 and found that the newer advantage mono's a lot better, they are quieter and have a sharper and more positive signal response.

The 16" nuggetfinder sl mono cant be used on the 5000 as they run erratically, I am told that this is due to an extra winding of wire in it, cant say for sure if this is the same for the larger 18" and 20" etc ones as well, but I imagine there could be similarities in the internal windings so it would be adviseable to ask around before spending money on one, anyway I think you would find the nuggetfinder adavantage coil a much better option.

cheers

stayyerAU




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Post  Guest Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:26 pm

Hello stayyerAU,

Well my new 12 inch round mono Nugget Finder Advantage coil finally arrived, and i took it for a feed of gold on Sunday and scored 6 bits for a total of 3 grams Smile I went out again Tuesday with it attached to my GPX4500 and got 3 bits for 0.9 grams.The coil has a nice bright signal response and picked out a few 0.1 no problems,it also gave a very positive signal on a 1.4 gram nugget which was about 8 inches down in a mullock heap..I like it.

PS..please let us know how it performs when take your coil for a detect.
Cheers Eureka Dreams


Last edited by Eureka Dreams on Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : better sentance sense)

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Post  nfinder Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:47 pm

I posted in the later part of last year in the 4800/5000 area to enquire whether anyone was having issues using nuggetfinder coils on the 5000. My older 18" nuggetfinder mono will not work with my 5000 - its erratic and noisy. I have been told that the winding is the likely cause of the issue.
My newer 16" and 18" nuggetfinder mono advantage are both erratic, the 18" more so. They generally start of quiet but after a period become erratic and noisy to he point where they cant be used.
For the limited time they work together, they work bloody well.
To clarify - I detect in the goldfields of WA, so mineralisation is an issue. And the issues experiened seem to be with the larger coils and get noticably worse from mid morning on.
Im yet to get to the bottom of the issue and am trying different coils (size and make) to determine whether it is a coil or machine issue.

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Post  Guest Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:58 pm

hi nfinder
i have used my 24x12 nuggy mono (white plastic super light one) on the 5000 in vic and sa with no probs...
cheers

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Post  keogh Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:42 am

Hello Nfinder ,l had the same issues with GPX 5000 as you, running all my coils ,16 SL nugget finder mono, 12 inch advantage mono .l have a new 16 inch Advantage mono on 5000 and it runs well with this coil, but it may have been altered to run better on the 5000 as it was made after the release of the 5000, but l am not sure on this.I sent the 5000 back to Minelab who said that there was nothing wrong with the detector.l have run the 12 inch advantage on 5000 since getting the detector back and it went well,l have yet to test some of my other coils to see how they run on the 5000 ,my 16 inch nugget finder DD would not run on 5000, but l have not tryed it since getting my detector back from Minelab with nothing wrong with it.Regards keogh

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Post  Guest Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:03 am

Gday Eureka Dreams


Your experience with the 12" sounds very positive, and I will be using mine on the 4500 as well, if the way it operates is as well as the other nf coils I use I will be very pleased, due to a downturn in work I almost decided to go bush for the week, but alas the weather has been a tad wet in our goldfields so I thought that I should wait a bit longer, starting to get irritated with being home but the upside is I have been getting my trailer and the postie bike ready for this season so I am looking forward to trying all that out along with th 30x7 patchfinder coil and the 12" round coil.

cheers

stayyerAU

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Post  Guest Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:29 am

nfinder wrote:I posted in the later part of last year in the 4800/5000 area to enquire whether anyone was having issues using nuggetfinder coils on the 5000. My older 18" nuggetfinder mono will not work with my 5000 - its erratic and noisy. I have been told that the winding is the likely cause of the issue.
My newer 16" and 18" nuggetfinder mono advantage are both erratic, the 18" more so. They generally start of quiet but after a period become erratic and noisy to he point where they cant be used.
For the limited time they work together, they work bloody well.
To clarify - I detect in the goldfields of WA, so mineralisation is an issue. And the issues experiened seem to be with the larger coils and get noticably worse from mid morning on.
Im yet to get to the bottom of the issue and am trying different coils (size and make) to determine whether it is a coil or machine issue.


Gday nfinder

As far as I am aware the issue with the early NF sl mono coils not working on the 5000 is one due to the windings, although the only coil that was specifically mentioned to me at the time was the 16" round coil, I am unsure if other nf sl coils are an issue, maybe not as I see other comments from members saying that there coils will work, perhaps its only the round coils not the eliptical ones?.

Your issues with the EMI is common on the 4500 and so it seems the 5000 has some of the same issues, not that I have used one but from your description the senario is the same, the problem seems to start about late morning and into the afternoon, its becomes increasingly annoying if the weather is warm and windy, it creates spurious noises and false signals, if you lift the coil up from the ground it will sometimes increase, at times it gets so bad that I have had to turn the machine off and move away from the spot I was in, the very worst place I experiences this was in Karratha and the machine would literally have a spas attack so I would just shut it down for a short while, this could have been also due to the fact of there being communications towers and also train communications in the area as well.

The only solution to this is that you have to go down to a smaller coil when it is really bad, and make alterations to your detectors adjustments, lower the gain etc until you got it running more or less evenly again, coils are basically an antenna so the bigger the antenna the more emi it will pick up, also the effect of electrical storms and such hundreds of klms away can add to the issue too.

Some areas I have detected here in WA are also under the flight path of north bound planes so i suspect that there may also be situations where the detector is picking up radar pulses as well because sometimes it will just have a hissy fit and then stop just as quickly as it started, I cant verify this for sure but I have my suspicions, anyway I have learned to live with these minor inconvieniences and have learnt also that the best part of the day to detect is from very early first light up until about lunchtime, some days are better than others and you can work all day with very little change, once things heat up and the wind comes in then things are a little harder to manage.

cheers

stayyerAU

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Post  Guest Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:56 am

Hi StayyerAU,

I read with interest your post regarding the NF 16 and 18 coils. I was thinking of purchasing one of these 18 coils myself but think I will hold off for a while now. No doubt the makers of these coils will be running various tests on the 5000 machines to solve the problems.

Let us know how the 30x7 patchfinder goes, thats one BIG coil mate....... How does it feel to swing one of those Smile
regards

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Post  Alan WA Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:44 pm

I bought a 12NF when they first came out.
Great on little bits but what impressed me the most
was the bigger bits it turned up. Bits up to 40gms that
shouldn't have been there.

Sold some of my older coils last year and trying to decide what
to replace them with.
24x14 CT 30x7 NF or a new WA one.Maybe more than one.
These cyclones are giving me time to dwell on it tho...
Alan

PS Have to do things 2-3 times to post here. Keep getting sent back
to login page. Happen to others???
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Post  Narrawa Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:49 pm

Alan WA wrote:
PS Have to do things 2-3 times to post here. Keep getting sent back
to login page. Happen to others???
It use to quite a bit, especially if you were doing a largish post and answering the phone at the same time ect.

When you have finished your post, highlight it by holding down the left mouse button until all your post has turned blue, right click it and copy, now either preview your post or post it, if your met with the login screen you can guarantee your post has now vanished, login again and you should be presented with the empty box where your post once was, now right click & paste, ta-da!! Laughing
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Post  Alan WA Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:36 pm




Thanks Narrawa.
Actually ended up doing that for the previous post.
Good to know its not a problem at this end.

Alan
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Post  nfinder Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:59 pm

Hi all,
Im interested in issues people are having with their coils and 5000's. I want to get my gear sorted before it cools off here in the west and after the finish to last year Ive lost a bit of confidence in my machine and coil combination.
I love the 18" nuggetfinder and will at times also use the 16".
In the later part of last year we were running nuggetfinder 16" and 18" coils on a 4500 and 2 x 5000's, all being used on the same day, same time.
The 4500 with nuggetfinder 18" we could manage/tune to detect and still distinguish targets with the mineralisation and EMI that was about. The 5000's (one with 18" advantage and another with 16" advantage), no matter what we did to tune, got to a point where they were not usable. The problems seemed to be more than EMI/mineralisation related, and if I put it down to any one laymans statment - in my mind as time went on the coil/machine seemed to build up an incompatability or resistence that resulted in erratic and false noises (is this possible?).
As a comparison the 5000's would run very quite using the 11" Minelab coils supplied with the machine.
Any help, experiences appreciated as if need be Im in the market for new coils so I can get back out there.
Thanks

nfinder
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Post  TheGoldenChild Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:40 pm

nfinder I have seen the problem you are talking about first hand on my mate's 5000 with his 16" NF and 20" NF.I first thought
it might be a compatability issue with NF's and 5000's.The reply you got from
StayyerAU is probably the best you gonna get on your issue. Probably wont want to hear this but since your NF coils dont play well with your 5000's and you still want a big coil sell them and get 18"Commanders. I know this sucks as I love using my NF coils on my 4500 but if you want your 5000's to work without a problem you might need to change your coil brand.
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Post  Guest Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:10 am

brookesy888 wrote:Hi StayyerAU,

I read with interest your post regarding the NF 16 and 18 coils. I was thinking of purchasing one of these 18 coils myself but think I will hold off for a while now. No doubt the makers of these coils will be running various tests on the 5000 machines to solve the problems.

Let us know how the 30x7 patchfinder goes, thats one BIG coil mate....... How does it feel to swing one of those Smile
regards


Gday Brookesy888


There seems to be some confusion regarding the Nuggetfinder mono coils, let me just try and explain it a bit more clearly, the coils in question are the Nuggetfinder SL round mono coils, they were the light grey ones that have been about for a few years now, NOT the Nuggetfinder Advantage grey mono coils that are relatively new and still currently selling as I dont have a 5000 I dont know if there has been any issues with the advantage coils, the report that I heard was only about the earlier sl coils.

Has anybody had issues with the later Advantage coils?, or are people who are relatively new to the 4500 and 5000 just experiencing the EMI issues (that is common) with these machines and just thinking that it is a coil compatibility issue?

The EMI issues started with the 4500 and I also I believe with the 5000 too, usually they will run quiet for the earlier part of the day and then as things warm up and the wind increases you will get spurious noises and false signals, this can be countered by going down to a smaller coil and making adjustments to your gain level etc, the bigger the coil the more emi it will pick up just like a bigger antenna.

If you are having a coil compatibility issue the coil would not perform well under any conditions and will play up from the moment you put it on, not run for half the day and then start to act up.

Ok to finally answer your question re the 30x7 patchfinder coil, i have given it a swing around the backyard only as yet, due to work and many other things I have not even been able to take it to my quiet test area for a bit of a try out, theres is a possibility that I could get away for a week or so very soon due to a lapse in work Very Happy and then I will be giving it a bit of a workout on some open country that I have in mind.

As far as feel goes when waving the thing, being that its so long and skinny and also a very light coil it does not feel bad at all, very different if you like mainly round coils as I do, but I still feel very positive about its ability and that massive ground coverage might be just the thing to get you on to the first pice, one thing that I have noticed with it to date is it gives a very sharp reponse when swung very quickly as well, this is a good thing if you are swiging quick to get in more ground coverage, how this alters on the more mineralised ground I am not sure as yet.

cheers

stayyerAU






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Post  TheGoldenChild Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:38 am

Definitely not EMI StayyerAU as the 5000 goes haywire and the only thing that fixes it is switching it off for a few minutes then restarting it. If it was EMI the problem would still be there after the restart.
Yes we were using 16" and 20"NF SL mono coils don't know if the Advantage coils are affected. It seems to affect some 5000 units not all as the 5000 I had on the day with NF SL 16" mono behaved normally while my mates was going haywire all day until he decided to put the 11" Commander back on which fixed the problem.
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Post  nfinder Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:50 am

I have experienced the issues with the 16 and 18 advantages. I have heard via the grapevine in the last few days that there is an issue with coils, specifically the winding, that is not just related to the SL mono but also advantage.
Im also told there is continued testing being done at the moment in relation to the issues.
Im frustrated that neither my local dealer, Minelab or Nuggetfinder can shed any 'official' light on the issues. I will be heading bush soon and my only assurance to avoid issues is to use a commander coil.

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Post  Guest Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:44 am

TheGoldenChild wrote:Definitely not EMI StayyerAU as the 5000 goes haywire and the only thing that fixes it is switching it off for a few minutes then restarting it. If it was EMI the problem would still be there after the restart.
Yes we were using 16" and 20"NF SL mono coils don't know if the Advantage coils are affected. It seems to affect some 5000 units not all as the 5000 I had on the day with NF SL 16" mono behaved normally while my mates was going haywire all day until he decided to put the 11" Commander back on which fixed the problem.


Gday

The 4500 does exactly the same thing sometimes, and as you say switching it off and waiting for a few minutes does the trick, I use the term EMI a bit loosely I guess as I use it to describe any outside interference that might cause the detector to play up, this interference can eminate from many sources some of which are natural like lightning, solar flares, static discharges etc, but also I believe from some forms of communications such as radio waves, radar pulses and other communications devices, and of course your mates detector as well if it is on a similar frequency.

As far as the detectors talking to eachother goes, I have noticed that in some circumstances when say my mate is detecting uphill from me and it could be some distance away sometimes I will get feedback from his detector, and it also happens the other way round, sometimes it may not be in direct sight of you like when you are working in scrubby country or hilly terrain so you dont realise where it is coming from, if this happens then face the coil in their direction or the direction of the worst interference and carry out an auto tune which should fix the problem, sometimes I will sneak up on my mate and switch my detector on and off to give him the s...s! because he does not bother to re tune and I always end up having to do it.

Just because it goes away after a short period of having the detector off does not mean that it does not fit in to one of these catergories, in fact it is more likely to be an outside interference issue that comes irregularly than an internal electronics issue, as I would think that a faulty electrical component would play up more consistantly, I am not saying that this is not the case but from my experience with most of the earlier minelab detectors I have found that its almost always been an outside source of interference or pulse of some kind that has caused the detectors to play up.

The other thing to try is to re tune your machine and then set it manually to get the best results, it my be that a small shift in frequency might be all thats needed to make it better, also having to go down to a smaller coil is normal on the 4500 on a really bad day when nothing seems to help, it sounds as though the 5000 has inherited the same issues as the 4500.

All of my nuggetfinder advantage coils run smoothly and quietly on the 4500, the only two I have not field tested are the 12" round mono and the 30x7 patchfinder, but they behave normally in home testing so I am not really expecting any issues from then at this stage, the only nf advantage coil that I had issues with in the past was the 20" round coil, it was a little noisier on the hot ground than I liked, going down to the 18" round did the trick, it was more the effect of the mineralisation that made it noisy rather than emi.

cheers

stayyerAU




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Post  Vertigo Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:16 am

I experienced this problem for the first time yesterday. I bought a new 17EM last week and ran it twice without any issues. Yesterday after after about an hour of use my 5000 became unstable and refused to GB. I tried to autotune and all I got was a loud squeal on every frequency. Manual tune has the same. I could still get a response off my test nugget by passing it over the coil while in a stationary position. However, if I tried to swing the coil over the ground any variation in coil height cause a change in the threshhold. I'm more than a little disappointed with the NF since I changed over from a 14x9 GS to eliminate the falsing issues. Looks like I'm back to using the stock 11" mono after a considerable investment in aftermarket coils.

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Post  Guest Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:15 am

Gday Vertigo


As I wrote earlier it is more likely that the issue is a combination of coil and machine, and not just with the coils, the 4500 behaves in the very same way in some places too, and the quickest solution was to simply shut it down and wait ten minutes, even walk a short distance away from where you were working at the time, fire it back up and if it has settled down do an auto tune, re gb and then check/tweek your other settings.

There is no use trying to get it back to normal during one of these spas attacks, from my experience I have not been able to do anything adjustment wise that has been of any use, and the above prescribed method was the only thing that worked, some areas that I have worked were horrendous and the racket the detector would make, particularly when using an external speaker would make your hair stand on end.

The first time it happened I was sure that the machine was having a meltdown and I had to resist the urge to throw it on the ground and shoot at it to put it out of its misery, after it happening a few times and finding that no adjustments would bring it back to normal I soon realised that it was less disturbing to just turn it off and take a break for awhile rather than try to fix it.

Like I said also it seems that the 5000 has inherited the same issues as the 4500 when it comes to that particular thing happening with it, its one of those things that you will have to learn to perservere with, if it is ongoing on particular day you simply have to make the choice to either work with it or as you say just switch back to using a smaller coil, sometimes when its been happening fairly consistantly over a couple of days I just plan around it, I do any patch hunting or big coil work in the cool of the early mornings or up until the instability starts and then switch over to small coils and just do some sniffing about scrapings or whatever.

Anyway I hope this helps, and I wouldnt suggest ditching the 17" nf eliptical just yet, they are a good coil, just learn to work around the machines quirks.

cheers

stayyerAU

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Post  Vertigo Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:42 am

I gave it another go today with the 17EM and it never missed a beat. Weather conditions were vastly different though. Was overcast and 10-15 degrees cooler. I'm still a little gun shy of the NF going haywire 2 clicks from my truck. I think I'll keep the 11" mono close by.

Follow-up:
My 5000 went scow wow again today. Only this time it was with the stock 11" mono. Can't be the NF coil. I did a full reset and it was fine. Weird.

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Post  Guest Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:49 am


Gday Vertigo


Like I have already said I dont believe that the later nf advantage coils are the issue, its something that seems to be peculiar to the 4500 and the 5000, anyway as long as you can switch it off and get it right again thats good, perhaps you could trying doing a tune and ground balance before you start a new detecting session and see if that works for you.

This sort of thing seems to happen more in some areas and than others, you may find that there is something in the area you are working that may be causing the issues, perhaps a telephone tower or repeater station or something silmilar?

cheers

stayyerAU

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NuggetFinder Coils on GPX models Empty Re: NuggetFinder Coils on GPX models

Post  Vertigo Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:03 am

stayyerAU wrote:
Gday Vertigo


Like I have already said I dont believe that the later nf advantage coils are the issue, its something that seems to be peculiar to the 4500 and the 5000, anyway as long as you can switch it off and get it right again thats good, perhaps you could trying doing a tune and ground balance before you start a new detecting session and see if that works for you.

This sort of thing seems to happen more in some areas and than others, you may find that there is something in the area you are working that may be causing the issues, perhaps a telephone tower or repeater station or something silmilar?

cheers

stayyerAU

Thanks for the tip but I always retune and ground balance any time I turn the machine off. On the last incident with the stock coil the detector refused to even find my test nugget. Obviously, the probem is not just with the NF coils. Whatever the issue a full reset solved the probem. I'm inclined to agree with you that the detector and conditions are the culprit and not any particular coil.

Vertigo
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