MH370 This Is Interesting.

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Post  adrian ss on Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:21 am

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Post  tony p on Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:13 am

One thing I have always found interesting...... Australia has an "Over the Horizon Radar Facility' East of Laverton.
Very 'hush hush' and most of it underground. It picks up/plots every air and sea movement for a couple of thousands of k's away.

Point is...the plane would definitely have been detected and tracked by this facility.

Just to add to the conspiracy theory......local contractors that have worked at the site have talked about this...they claim to have asked
someone at the site and the response was along the lines of 'don't ask'.

Cool hey

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Post  adrian ss on Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:11 pm

Why head for Christmas Island? Run out of fuel and then turn out to sea when he could have ditched close to land or even on the island airfield. The fuel tanks were empty so had a fair chance of survival without a fireball landing. If it had ditched in 5000m of ocean at say stall speed or near to it, the plane would still have broken apart and debris would be all over the place. The only debris that i have read about was found much further North.

When Tomnod was doing a satellite imaging search for this aircraft and the public was able to participate by scanning selected images and marking anything that looked like it might be aircraft wreckage. I located one plane that fitted the bill for a 777  where MH370 was thought to be over/in ocean and I marked it accordingly and also sent a copy of the image to AMSA who at first were not even interested in looking at it but I sent it anyway. Did not receive any response.
I still have that image somewhere here....Somewhere. Rolling Eyes

If you have a look at https://www.flightradar24.com/-36.73,97.8/4 you will notice that there is not a lot of air traffic over that part of the Indian ocean where MH370 was though to have passed over and so an aircraft off the west coastal regions  of Australia should have been detected quickly. If not by civil radar then definitely by military OHR radar.
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Post  madtuna on Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:02 pm

tony p wrote:One thing I have always found interesting...... Australia has an "Over the Horizon Radar Facility' East of Laverton.
Very 'hush hush' and most of it underground. It picks up/plots every air and sea movement for a  couple of thousands of k's away.

Point is...the plane would definitely have been detected and tracked by this facility.

Just to add to the conspiracy theory......local contractors that have worked at the site have talked about this...they claim to have asked
someone at the site and the response was along the lines of 'don't ask'.

Cool hey

The transmit site is east of Laverton and the receive site is here on Erlistoun station.
It's not 'hush hush' at all and is above ground not underground.

The public can drive right into the heart of it and if they have time they will even take you on a tour of the site. I am inducted and quite often go for a social visit and diner in their wet mess. A great bunch of blokes.

Yes some areas are closed due to highly sensitive monitoring equipment that will pick up the pings of your mobile phone or your boiling tea kettle humming away. Even their power tools are baffled and silenced.

They do not 'pick up/plot every air and sea movement for a couple of thousands of k's away.'
They investigate predominantly sea traffic not air traffic. They are provided with intel of a ship or boat or movement in a specific area and then investigate that target only. They do not monitor hundreds or thousands of kilometres of sky and ocean, they need a specific target to look at.

The plane would definitely NOT have been detected and tracked by this facility, because until it went missing there was no need at all to track it apart from the normal air traffic monitoring that happens with general aviation.

The local contractors who said they were told 'don't ask' I would hazard a guess and say they are telling porkies.
The blokes at the site are very open as to why it wasn't tracked...they had no reason to and they couldn't even if they wanted to.

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Post  rockhunter62 on Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:19 pm

Like Madtuna said, here is what it is. All the info is available if you search it.

The Jindalee Operational Radar Network (JORN) is an over-the-horizon radar (OTHR) network that can monitor air and sea movements across 37,000 km2. It has a normal operating range of 1,000 km to 3,000 km.[1] It is used in the defence of Australia, and can also monitor maritime operations, wave heights and wind directions.

JORN's main ground stations comprise a control centre, known as JCC, at RAAF Base Edinburgh in South Australia and two transmission stations: JOR1 near Longreach, Queensland and JOR2 near Laverton, Western Australia.[2]

the Queensland transmitter at Longreach,[19] with 90 degree coverage (23.658047°S 144.145432°E, also on OzGeoRFMap),the Queensland receiver at Stonehenge,[19] with 90 degree coverage (24.291095°S 143.195286°E, also on OzGeoRFMap),the Western Australian transmitter at Leonora,[19] with 180 degree coverage (28.317378°S 122.843456°E, also on OzGeoRFMap), andthe Western Australian receiver at Laverton, with 180 degree coverage (28.326747°S 122.005234°E, also on OzGeoRFMap).

Cheers

Doug
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Post  boobook on Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:31 pm

Sounds very similar to the 'over the horizon" site a little north of Stonehenge in Qld. Very open to visits, good bunch of blokes there and always hospitable.
Recall one of the blokes met there had a liking for Guinness cans, shared a few with him.
We were only busted A*s* opal miners they took sympathy on Sad

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Post  adrian ss on Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:23 pm

madtuna wrote:
tony p wrote:One thing I have always found interesting...... Australia has an "Over the Horizon Radar Facility' East of Laverton.
Very 'hush hush' and most of it underground. It picks up/plots every air and sea movement for a  couple of thousands of k's away.

Point is...the plane would definitely have been detected and tracked by this facility.

Just to add to the conspiracy theory......local contractors that have worked at the site have talked about this...they claim to have asked
someone at the site and the response was along the lines of 'don't ask'.

Cool hey

The transmit site is east of Laverton and the receive site is here on Erlistoun station.
It's not 'hush hush' at all and is above ground not underground.

The public can drive right into the heart of it and if they have time they will even take you on a tour of the site. I am inducted and quite often go for a social visit and diner in their wet mess. A great bunch of blokes.

Yes some areas are closed due to highly sensitive monitoring equipment that will pick up the pings of your mobile phone or your boiling tea kettle humming away. Even their power tools are baffled and silenced.

They do not 'pick up/plot every air and sea movement for a  couple of thousands of k's away.'
They investigate predominantly sea traffic not air traffic. They are provided with intel of a ship or boat or movement in a specific area and then investigate that target only. They do not monitor hundreds or thousands of kilometres of sky and ocean, they need a specific target to look at.

The plane would definitely NOT have been detected and tracked by this facility, because until it went missing there was no need at all to track it apart from the normal air traffic monitoring that happens with general aviation.

The local contractors who said they were told 'don't ask' I would hazard a guess and say they are telling porkies.
The blokes at the site are very open as to why it wasn't tracked...they had no reason to and they couldn't even if they wanted to.

The thing is, that it was not supposed to be there (If it actually ever was there) and so it should have been spotted as a Bogey straight away.


Last edited by adrian ss on Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  madtuna on Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:46 pm

adrian ss wrote:
The thing is, is that it was not supposed to be there (If it actually ever was there) and so it should have been spotted as a Bogey straight away.

It doesn't work that way Adrian, they need to be given a set of coordinates to focus on.
It's not like the movies with a bunch of blokes peering into radar screens or manning hilltop lookouts with binoculars.


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Post  adrian ss on Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:00 pm

Hmm. Well I was in the RAAF for twenty years and saw some pretty nifty radar units.
If radar is not at least as good these days as what I have seen in the past then we have taken a serious backwards step in coastal surveylance.

Now if we cannot detect an unidentified aircraft not transmitting IFF intruding in our airspace  with out first being given its coords  then we are in big trouble.
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Post  madtuna on Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:23 pm

Completely different type of system designed for a completely different purpose

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Post  adrian ss on Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:26 am

So you are saying that a squadron of nuke carrying Aircraft could  fly low level from China, come out of the setting sun from the West Indian ocean bomb the crap out of Perth or the whole of WA and be gone back to China before we had time to react......Just coz nobody said they were coming or gave us the Coords of the attacking Aircraft. Bugger we are really in trouble. affraid or maybe lol! lol! lol!

China's Air force  has at least 398,000 active personnel 5,200+ military aircraft Approx. 2,755 to 3,010+ Fighter aircraft, Bomber,and Attack aircraft.
Australia has the equivalant of  couple of Wirraways that they cannot afford to fly. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
Oh year;.... And what sounds like a pedal powered radar surveylance system stuck up on a hill somewhere in the WA desert.


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Post  bicter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:55 am

adrian ss wrote:
If you have a look at https://www.flightradar24.com/-36.73,97.8/4 you will notice that there is not a lot of air traffic over that part of the Indian ocean where MH370 was though to have passed over and so an aircraft off the west coastal regions  of Australia should have been detected quickly. If not by civil radar then definitely by military OHR radar.

Adrian, there are very few fixed ground based primary radars operated by civilians or military in Australia.
Airservices, who provide the ATC function in Australia predominantly operate secondary radar.
The primary radars are based at the capital cities and have a range of 160 nautical miles (last I looked). They closed down the majority of primaries over the last 25 years.
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Post  madtuna on Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:05 am

adrian ss wrote:So you are saying that a squadron of nuke carrying Aircraft could  fly low level from China, come out of the setting sun from the West Indian ocean bomb the crap out of Perth or the whole of WA and be gone back to China before we had time to react......Just coz nobody said they were coming or gave us the Coords of the attacking Aircraft. Bugger we are really in trouble. affraid or maybe lol! lol! lol!

China's Air force  has at least 398,000 active personnel 5,200+ military aircraft Approx. 2,755 to 3,010+ Fighter aircraft, Bomber,and Attack aircraft.
Australia has the equivalant of  couple of Wirraways that they cannot afford to fly. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
Oh year;.... And what sounds like a peddle powered radar surveylance system stuck up on a hill somewhere in the WA desert.

I just re read my posts and for the life of me I can't see where I suggested that. I think now you're just being an argumentative d!ck

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Post  adrian ss on Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:17 am

You could be right.
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Post  tony p on Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:17 am

madtuna wrote:
tony p wrote:One thing I have always found interesting...... Australia has an "Over the Horizon Radar Facility' East of Laverton.
Very 'hush hush' and most of it underground. It picks up/plots every air and sea movement for a  couple of thousands of k's away.

Point is...the plane would definitely have been detected and tracked by this facility.

Just to add to the conspiracy theory......local contractors that have worked at the site have talked about this...they claim to have asked
someone at the site and the response was along the lines of 'don't ask'.

Cool hey

The transmit site is east of Laverton and the receive site is here on Erlistoun station.
It's not 'hush hush' at all and is above ground not underground.

The public can drive right into the heart of it and if they have time they will even take you on a tour of the site. I am inducted and quite often go for a social visit and diner in their wet mess. A great bunch of blokes.

Yes some areas are closed due to highly sensitive monitoring equipment that will pick up the pings of your mobile phone or your boiling tea kettle humming away. Even their power tools are baffled and silenced.

They do not 'pick up/plot every air and sea movement for a  couple of thousands of k's away.'
They investigate predominantly sea traffic not air traffic. They are provided with intel of a ship or boat or movement in a specific area and then investigate that target only. They do not monitor hundreds or thousands of kilometres of sky and ocean, they need a specific target to look at.

The plane would definitely NOT have been detected and tracked by this facility, because until it went missing there was no need at all to track it apart from the normal air traffic monitoring that happens with general aviation.

The local contractors who said they were told 'don't ask' I would hazard a guess and say they are telling porkies.
The blokes at the site are very open as to why it wasn't tracked...they had no reason to and they couldn't even if they wanted to.



ah well.....yet another good conspiracy theory down the gurgler....unless of course your actually working for the government???

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