New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils

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New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils Empty New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils

Post  davsgold on Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:41 pm

Thanks to Chet on the DP forum in the USA for pioneering the new way of doing the patch lead for the X-Coils on the GPZ7000, it makes use of the curly part of the GPZ coil cable and makes changing the coils at the top of lower shaft and the bottom of the upper shaft way more easy.  I am testing this new type patch lead here in Aussie now.

The X-Coils have a shorter coil cable (no curls at all) and the curley cable is all part of the GPZ coil lead, the total length of the combined coil cables is the same as always, the GPZ7000 shafts close up same as before.

To change coils, close the shafts as before, undo the clamp mechanism on the lower shaft slide apart and hold with something while changing coils (I just used a peg)

On first installation, join the long patch lead to the x-coil cable and insert up the shaft to the control box as before, once done you don't need to do it this way again, just swap coils at the lower shaft.

If for some unknown reason 😲 you ever want to go back to a standard GPZ coil then you will need to change coils at the control box like before. 😉

New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils 76948610

The black plastic spacers prevent the metal plugs moving from side to side inside the shaft

New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils 79144510

New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils 78629910

New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils 78800310

New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils 74599510

cheers dave
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New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils Empty Re: New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils

Post  Ismael on Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:30 am

The problem with this system is 2 fold:

1. The detector WILL pick up the connection and lower the performance, this I proved years ago with PI detectors and the aluminum shafts going to non metallic gave a performance increase not much but the detector will see the metal and balance it out on balancing.

2. if the connection being inside a larger shaft moves you will get falsing signals as although when the connector is stationary it will get added to the balance of the detector when it moves however could lead to the detector picking it up...

Just my thoughts on the cable, better for the Xcoils to use a curly cord or provide a longer cord and the user can then make it into a curly cord if the manufacturer doesn't want to do this...
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New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils Empty Re: New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils

Post  davsgold on Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:43 am

Ismael wrote:The problem with this system is 2 fold:

1. The detector WILL pick up the connection and lower the performance, this I proved years ago with PI detectors and the aluminum shafts going to non metallic gave a performance increase not much but the detector will see the metal and balance it out on balancing.

2. if the connection being inside a larger shaft moves you will get falsing signals as although when the connector is stationary it will get added to the balance of the detector when it moves however could lead to the detector picking it up...

Just my thoughts on the cable, better for the Xcoils to use a curly cord or provide a longer cord and the user can then make it into a curly cord if the manufacturer doesn't want to do this...

G'day Ismael

You may be right, I have only just yesterday been sent this to test/try from the manufacture, who has tried it and reckoned it was all good. I want to put it to the test here.

I have this new setup on my GPZ7000 with a 17x12 spiral x-coil, and I have the short original patch lead set up with a 17x12 spiral x-coil on the Mrs GPZ7000, so we will soon see if there is any compromise in target comparisons this way.

The plugs won't actually jiggle around in the hollow shaft as they are stabilized by the two black plastic spacers which keep the plugs from moving while the detector is being used.

We will see how it goes and when I have done some testing and general use I will report how it goes.

cheers dave
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New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils Empty Re: New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils

Post  Mechanic on Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:40 pm

I would have to agree with Ismael on this.
Even though there might be no obvious interference from having the connector that close, it sure could interfere in certain conditions.
With Pi detectors , you can place a target on the coil, wait for the threshold to stabilize and then use a piece of ferrite that normally would make no response and find the target that is sitting stationary on the coil.
Although it is a pain in the backside, I think it would be worth it to just keep it as you already have it.

Cheers Mick

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New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils Empty Re: New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils

Post  davsgold on Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:57 pm

Mechanic wrote:I would have to agree with Ismael on this.
Even though there might be no obvious interference from having the connector that close, it sure could interfere in certain conditions.
With Pi detectors , you can place a target on the coil, wait for the threshold to stabilize and then use a piece of ferrite  that normally would make no response and find the target that is sitting stationary on the coil.
Although it is a pain in the backside, I think it would be worth it to just keep it as you already have it.

Cheers Mick

Yes I know Mick, I have seen that before, and yes that is why we went to the fiberglass shafts top and lower on the 4500's etc.

We still have the short patch leads that we have been using anyway, and can easily just keep using them.

But when something gets sent to try, I say well why not give it a go, and for sure I like to hear what other think about how it might or might not work as planned.

I know it will work, but the big question is how well will it work, there is no point making something easier to use if it even slightly kills the response on targets.

What I really want is the full GPZ minelab coil cable fitted to the x-coils at time of manufacture, this is the ultimate, will it ever happen, only if minelab will sell the GPZ coil cables under license.

cheers dave
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Post  Kon61gold on Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:05 pm

Absolutely agree with the electronic engineers on here, but (& here comes my thoughts on the matter). The metallic connector, looks like being or approx 20 inches further up or away from the coil. So even if the connector is capable of being seen or picked up by the coil, at that distance away, it would be the faintest of signal response & easily cancelled/balanced out. The main thing here is to make sure that the metallic connector stays in unison with the movement of coil & the 2 rubber washers should keep the connector at a snug fit within the shaft, preventing any vibration or movement. If this is the case, I don't see why not all things working perfectly well, but I could be wrong for I'm no electronics wiz.
Give it a good thorough test-over Dave (especially on the touch/bump sensitivity side) & let us know what your thoughts on this matter are, for Chet could be on to something good here (for the wearing out of parts from screwing them on & off all the time, would be on the cheaper coil connector side & not the connector in the control housing), as well as much easier in the changing of coils.

Cheers gents Kon. T25
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Post  gef50 on Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:51 am

Would agree with Isamel on this also ... have made extender cables in the past ...
just doesnt cut the mustard ....
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New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils Empty Re: New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils

Post  davsgold on Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:48 pm

Iv'e been running the new patch lead in VIC and I have to say it runs very very well, I have stabilized the lower plug (fitted half way down the shaft) so it won't move about, the 17" spiral round gets targets deeper than the 17x12 spiral which I had been using for months.

You can buy X-coils at http://www.x-coils.com

This video is on the test patch in NSW that we have been using


cheers dave


Last edited by davsgold on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Jonathan Porter on Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:19 pm

If the ground signal is greater than the signal created by the connector then no problem, however if it moves around it will kill sensitivity and depth, in a lot of cases you won’t even be aware of it. And of course a 17 round is going to outperform a 17 x 12 elliptical.

JP
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New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils Empty Re: New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils

Post  davsgold on Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:23 pm

Jonathan Porter wrote:If the ground signal is greater than the signal created by the connector then no problem, however if it moves around it will kill sensitivity and depth, in a lot of cases you won’t even be aware of it. And of course a 17 round is going to outperform a 17 x 12 elliptical.

JP

and if it does not move around?
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Post  Nightjar on Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:55 pm

Dave, thanks for your time and effort to bring us details of your testing. Hope you get onto some gold as a bonus.
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New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils Empty Re: New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils

Post  Jonathan Porter on Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:28 am

davsgold wrote:
and if it does not move around?

If the coil can see it but it does not move relative to the coil then there will be some sensitivity loss, however if the ground signal is greater than the signal created by the connector then the ground signal holds sway.

Personally I don’t think this will be a major issue, the upper aluminium shaft of a GPX is at a similar distance from the coil and I’ve dug many many deep nuggets with those. Also DOD coils tend to have poor signal response when deeper targets get away from the dead centre of the coil, the sweet spot on a DOD is right under the yoke of the coil.

The things to look out for are spurious responses similar to EMI, they can be identified by noticing the response is associated with bumping or knocking depending on how loose the connector is, loose will be a rapid EMI like sound, minor restricted movement will be more subtle.

I think in the case of the X coils and the need for an adapter this is a better approach than the short connector that’s vulnerable to damage every time the detector is shortened and lengthened, the main body of the curly lead on the longer version will soak up the bulk of the strain cutting way back on potential failure. For piece of mind I would happily sacrifice a tiny little bit of sensitivity in quiet ground over reliability any day.

JP

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New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils Empty Re: New type of patch lead for GPZ7000 and x-coils

Post  davsgold on Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:36 am

Jonathan Porter wrote:
davsgold wrote:
and if it does not move around?

If the coil can see it but it does not move relative to the coil then there will be some sensitivity loss, however if the ground signal is greater than the signal created by the connector then the ground signal holds sway.

Personally I don’t think this will be a major issue, the upper aluminium shaft of a GPX is at a similar distance from the coil and I’ve dug many many deep nuggets with those. Also DOD coils tend to have poor signal response when deeper targets get away from the dead centre of the coil, the sweet spot on a DOD is right under the yoke of the coil.

The things to look out for are spurious responses similar to EMI, they can be identified by noticing the response is associated with bumping or knocking depending on how loose the connector is, loose will be a rapid EMI like sound, minor restricted movement will be more subtle.

I think in the case of the X coils and the need for an adapter this is a better approach than the short connector that’s vulnerable to damage every time the detector is shortened and lengthened, the main body of the curly lead on the longer version will soak up the bulk of the strain cutting way back on potential failure. For piece of mind I would happily sacrifice a tiny little bit of sensitivity in quiet ground over reliability any day.

JP


T06 You can buy X-coils at http://www.x-coils.com
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