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X-Coils for 7000

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Post  PeterInSa Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:24 pm

Re (For example, the new Nugget Finder Z-Search has the hottest spots on the coil on the raised ridges on the left and right of the coil, )

My understating is the that the swing sides ( LH & RH)of the standard Z coil are equally sensitive unlike the raised edges of the NF coil & the Flat. But.... unlike yourself I have not done the sensitivity test just the onfield experience. Could you confirm this is so, if you have done the test on the std Z coil?

Thanks

Peter

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Post  phrunt Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:33 pm

PeterInSa wrote:Re (For example, the new Nugget Finder Z-Search has the hottest spots on the coil on the raised ridges on the left and right of the coil, )

My understating is the that the swing sides ( LH & RH)of the standard Z coil are equally sensitive unlike the raised edges of the NF coil & the Flat. But.... unlike yourself I have not done the sensitivity test just the onfield experience. Could you confirm this is so, if you have done the test on the std Z coil?

Thanks

Peter

Hi Peter, in the video in my previous post I showed the standard Minelab 14x13" Coil and you're correct, the sides of it are sensitive and the raised ridges are not.   It's different to the NF coil.  I felt the standard coil did quite well in that test.

Keep in mind too not all pellets are equal, the ones on my test sticks are lead pellets, a lot of modern pellets are steel I believe and magnetic, they respond so much better than the lead ones, I'm pretty sure I've detected #9 steel pellets with the GPZ numerous times.

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Post  stevevic Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:12 pm

Hi Everyone
Got away for a few days and managed to learn a fair bit more about the 10" x coil
Total for two and a half days was 6 pieces for a total grand weight of 0.75 grams, this coil can certainly pick out the tiny ones, I reckon I gave up on half a dozen targets, no idea what they were but after two attempts I just couldnt justify the time on something so small, yesterdays rain didnt help either with muddy hands
Still find these coils love a hot rock but managed to change settings to make this manageable and still obtain good depth, ground noise minimal and not hard to pick it anyway
Impressed with the response for such small targets and feel confident coil is not going to miss much in regards to the bigger targets as long as ground not too deep
Another thing this little coil does is help your mindset, I know a total of 0.75 grams is tiny but even picking up little ones helps to keep ones concentration higher than spending hour after hour with no result
Cheers

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Post  piston broke Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:11 pm

Another thing this little coil does is help your mindset, I know a total of 0.75 grams is tiny but even picking up little ones helps to keep ones concentration higher than spending hour after hour with no result
Cheers
Q33
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Post  Kon61gold Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:52 am

cheers Q36 Bravo, that & a little more Steve. The little 10 inch coil, closely chases the standard 14X13 on the multigram bits at depth. Now because of its smaller diameter in size, it gets into tighter, more confined spaces, bringing the smaller coil one step closer, to hearing a deeply buried multi-grammer, that otherwise would be missed by a larger coil, because of the larger coils inability, to get closer to that target.  
Now on the same note, is that not, the true reason/purpose, for creating the new GPX 6000 (in order to help maintain ones mindset, by giving detectorists the best chance, of scoring the tiniest bit of colour?) Shocked Laughing

Cheers Kon. T25
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Post  phrunt Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:25 am

yes, being very sensitive the 10" can hit on hot rocks more. You may find though if you can run in manual and do a ground balance over a hot rock you can tune some of them completely out (depending on the composition of the hot rocks).  You can even do that with a couple of different types of hot rocks under the coil at once in the ground balance.   If the area has the same type of hot rocks scattered everywhere that can completely solve the problem and I do it all the time here.

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Post  stevevic Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:56 pm

Thanks for that Phrunt, will try that next time I am out, I have never really played around with the ground balance options, I know there has been a fair bit of talk on this forum about the best way to go about this so will change things up a bit
Usually just run in semi auto find in full auto things are a bit too quiet, Audio smoothing usually off but have tried on high with higher gain find that option not bad either
One thing I have noticed with this coil both ground noise and hot rocks can be identified, saying that feel I have to be careful with the latter as all gold doesnt sound the same either
As far as the 6000 goes Kon I have no idea what they will be capable of, all I know is these x coils will give us options we never had before and a couple of coils will be a lot cheaper than a new detector
Cheers

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Post  stevevic Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:38 am

Hi Everyone
Got out yesterday again with 10" x coil, would still be up there but rain again, and looking at radar looked like it was going to get worse before better
Did as you suggested Phrunt and ground balanced over hot rocks and certainly helped so thanks for that, I am running it with a fairly high gain so expecting unwanted signals, but as I previously mentioned the more I use it the more confident I am in reading the unwanted signals
Got a small 0.2 first up then nothing, moved to a area I had been to previously which has all the right geology, but again nothing, its funny how you sometimes find areas which look really promising and you hammer them convinced there has to be gold there and you end up with duck eggs
So then i thought i would take Kons advice and try it in shallow ground thats been hammered, found a surfaced area you could easily been seen off main track and even had its own parking spot about 30 mtrs from area
In 1 hour picked up 1 pellet, 2 tiny bit of rubbish, and 2 tiny bits of gold that wont register on scales, now I am not going to head down the path of spending all day looking for fly specks but it was very pleasing to be able to find these targets in such a hammered area, to me this coil has proved it is superior to the vast majority out there
Just a footnote on this, There is still slobs out there, next to this surfaced area somebody has raked a substantial area very recently (last few days) and just left it how it was for all to see, when I go back and if it hasnt been done I will rake it back in, was going to be this mornings job but as mentioned rain chased me out of camp at 5.30
Cheers

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Post  stevevic Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:51 pm

Hi Everyone
Just got back from a couple days detecting in the GT
Well like I said last time I was fairly convinced, now I am totally convinced these x coils see gold that the others cant
Bit over 4 grams (10 pieces) isnt setting the world on fire I know, but these coils have completely changed my mindset.
When I was using the standard coil I would get to the area i had selected, start detecting and as you moved through the day you would observe all the old scrapes and dig holes and after a while after finding no gold you would move on convinced it had all been got
All changed now, if I see nice and deep dig holes (obviously in the early days nobody bothered back filling) I think to myself I am in with a chance here, and in the last couple of trips all the gold has come from areas that have seen plenty of attention
Cant work it out sometimes when you pull a grammer out 150mm down about a metre away from old dig holes, surely you would think a standard GPZ or a 5000 would ping these, but as Kon has said different shaped nuggets, ground mineralisation etc all have a affect on how far a coil can punch, nothing else I can put it down too, no way would they have been missed, nice open ground really close to the road
This morning the same 5 bits for about 2 grams,same deal plenty of old holes all around me, and if I dont see another shotgun pellet for as long as I live I dont care, in the finish I was just leaving them, all signals very faint on top but still repetitive , one good boot scrape and game on
Reminds me of the old ML phrase when the 7000 was released and this new detector "Will make the old goldfields new again" well they gave us the machine and x coils have put a very big dollop of cream on top
Cant wait for the 22" concentric to get here should be interesting

Cheers

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Post  Kon61gold Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:54 pm

Good to hear Steve. It might only be 4 grams, but 4 grams of the good stuff. Well done. cheers When you get your hands on the new 22 inch Concentric & have given it a good work over, do let us know your thoughts on it.

Cheers Kon. T25
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Post  kiwijw Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:40 am

Kon61gold wrote:Good to hear Steve. It might only be 4 grams, but 4 grams of the good stuff. Well done.
Cheers Kon. T25

"It might ONLY be 4 grams".....bloody hell,Rolling Eyes   I wouldn't mind finding 4 grams Very Happy  Good on you Steve. Q36

JW  Q39
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Post  davsgold Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:53 pm

A couple of 3 hour morning detecting sessions because it is damn hot, but we got 26 species and 9 little nuggets between the Mrs and I this morning.

This is my lot of species waiting to be crushed.
X-Coils for 7000 - Page 4 20210410

This is what it looks like around the ground
X-Coils for 7000 - Page 4 20210411

I was using the 10" x-coil and Veronica was using the 8" x-coil on our mighty GPZ7000 detectors

cheers dave
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Post  Kon61gold Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:07 pm

Well done Dave/Veronica. We're bound to hear of some good gold finds down the track. Best of luck to you both. cheers

Cheers Kon. T25
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Post  davsgold Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:38 pm

cracked this one out of one of the species Very Happy
X-Coils for 7000 - Page 4 1g_fro10
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Post  Kon61gold Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:10 pm

Nice one Dave, well done. cheers

Cheers Kon. T25
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Post  davsgold Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:36 pm

the area is still giving up species and small nuggets, I cracked this specie in half and this is what it looked like Very Happy

X-Coils for 7000 - Page 4 20210413

and this specie after being dug sitting on the 17" CC
X-Coils for 7000 - Page 4 20210414

and the GPS find points on the screen of the Zed shows a group in a small part of the of the area we are detecting
X-Coils for 7000 - Page 4 20210415

cheers dave
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Post  Mike54 Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:24 pm

Nice patch of species Dave & Ronny, hope you find the main reef shedding those species. Very Happy Thanks for sharing your finds and pics.


Cheers.

Mike.


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Post  kiwijw Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:36 am

Hi there Dave, Do you have a drone? Not trying to tell you how to suck eggs & you may already have done this but be good to get a birds eye view of the ground from above & in the general vicinity of your GPS readings. You might be able to see slight but distinct colour changes in the ground that may be a fault line or contact zone where a the reef may be that has/is shedding those specie's. May even be able to make out very slight indents or gutters of ancient water paths. Often these are easier to see from a birds eye perspective than from eye level on ground.

Best of luck out there mate

JW Q39
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Post  davsgold Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:18 pm

kiwijw wrote:Hi there Dave, Do you have a drone? Not trying to tell you how to suck eggs & you may already have done this but be good to get a birds eye view of the ground from above & in the general vicinity of your GPS readings. You might be able to see slight but distinct colour changes in the ground that may be a fault line or contact zone where a the reef may be that has/is shedding those specie's. May even be able to make out very slight indents or gutters of ancient water paths. Often these are easier to see from a birds eye perspective than from eye level on ground.

Best of luck out there mate

JW  Q39    

yes mate, we do have a drone (Maverick Air) and we might just do what you suggest Very Happy it is easy to see where the bulk of the quartz species are coming from as the old timers had a mine right on top of the hill where we are camped and they must have got alot of gold because they threw a lot out, there are (were) species scattered down all sides of the hill from the mine.

I'm sure the drone would prove interesting though to get an overall perspective of the area from above. Very Happy

cheers dave
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Post  stevevic Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:53 am

Hi All
Finally got out with the new 22" concentric
Score 0 couldnt believe it, went back to same area i picked up a couple of grams few weeks ago convinced that the 10" had just run out of legs and the 22' would be doing plenty of damage as I moved into deeper ground. Just didnt happen, even went over where i had been and again nothing, over the other side of the ridge into the head of the gully above the alluvial workings and again 0
The coil is very powerful, I didnt do any testing but just moving around it with your pick or backpack you have to keep your distance, It also ran smooth HY, difficult,15 or 16 gain, semi auto and unfortunately still finds plenty of pellets, coil is a lot easier and lighter than the ML19" used it for 4 hours without the Bungeee before i started to feel the weight, being a spoked coil you can also disregard the outer winding and just use the centre of the coil to make sure you are covering the ground properly, this also helps a lot when you are pin pointing targets which I found quite easy
Happy with the coil overall, disappointing I didnt find anything(still scratching my head why not] but I suppose thats prospecting but it showed me enough it will have its day, it will just be a matter of putting the coil in the appropriate areas
Cheered myself up (slightly) picking up a couple little bits with the 10" maybe 0.5 total

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Post  davsgold Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:10 am

Keep at it Steve, I,m sure it will get the goods soon.

It is a pity that you can't have a switch to turn the outside winding into a MONO type of thing on the CC x-coils for the Zed, the outside winding being a TX, and unless it is a big target you need the RX center winding which is small in comparison to pick up the signal.

cheers dave
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Post  norvic Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:57 am

Yeah I note that the detection field on the concentric is not a inverse peak the diameter of the rx coil, it actually picks up surface signals right out past its external diaX-Coils for 7000 - Page 4 Captur10
meter depending of course on their size.

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Post  mn90403 Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:41 pm

Norvic,

I like your diagram. I think all 'book diagrams' where they only show a field above and below the physical coil are incomplete or even wrong.

I have tried and tried to get others to acknowledge that a coil senses targets before the coil gets over it. It is not just an above or below the windings sort of target response. There is a lateral sense too. Everyone will acknowledge that coils react to in an EMI sort of way large objects such as cars but the closer you get the less it is EMI. I can sense a metal post before I get to it. In some cases I'll turn down the sensitivity so I can detect closer to it.

When I come across large trash objects like cans or big lead if I'm not going too fast I'll sense the object and be drawn in like a moth to a flame. I think we all make the target get as loud as possible before we scrape or dig.

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Post  norvic Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:32 pm

The DOD coils on the Z, all of them pick up even fairly small pieces out to the sides often you`ll get a shallow piece into the bank a little when your running the coil up a narrow wash/gully. The concentric needs a bigger target of course. To illustrate what I`m on about hang a piece of cardboard across the centre of the coil looking down at 90 degs wider then the coil, turn on and in the air with the detector suspended and held in position then simply run various signals along and mark where they are first detected and you`ll get a shape sort of like I`ve roughly drawn for the concentric but the DODs a much fatter result one way of course wheras the concentric doesnt vary around its circumference naturally. But say a horseshoe on/near the surface well is a wee like having short range radar looking ahead, even confusing until you actually run the coil over. If this weren`t so why do we hang our pick over our shoulders, especially with large coils that are near a metre out in front of us. Buh I know a fellow almost gets gold before he`s got his detector turned on, but he`s definitely VLF...... Rolling Eyes

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Post  PeterInSa Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:32 pm

Like a Landcruiser owner of 30+ years buying a Twin Cab, a Holden, Ford or Isuzu and changing camps, its a slightly different ball game, so same for me, buying a 10 inch X-coil, Its on the way.

I read the praises by Simon (phrunt) and Dave ( davsgold) on this forum, along with the positive comments from jr (beatty)and AraratGold on Finders and the US Detector Prospector Forum along with the X-coils Facebook site. Was also influenced by the test comparisons between the standard Z coil and the NF 12 ( have one) and the potential wait time for a 10 Inch NF, so have purchased a 10 Inch X-coil.

Appreciate comments via PM's that Simon and Dave have given me.


Last edited by PeterInSa on Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  stevevic Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:48 pm

You wont be disappointed Peter
They are a great coil, only been out with mine 5 or 6 days but now the 14" ML stays at home
Cheers

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Post  joe82 Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:19 am

Do ya still have to cut the cable on them

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Post  stevevic Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:26 am

Yes Joe
I sent my 14"ML to a technician cost $250 including postage, coil and chip both back in perfect working order about 10 days
Cheers

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Post  mn90403 Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:18 am

When I got my X-coil adapter made I took it to an electronics shop in Southern California. As it turned out one of the employees was doing soldering jobs on the side for other metal detectors. He cut and soldered my 19" cable and then put a working connector back on the 19" coil and all are working just fine. The price was worth it being somewhere around $100. Shipping would have been more than that.

It's my understanding in Australia there is someone there that does most of the adapters and they haven't had any problems.

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Post  joe82 Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:05 am

Cheers guys👍

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