PMAV UPDATE

Gidday members,

I wish to post this on behalf of our President, Rita Bentley. Rita has asked me to place this post here, to clear up some matters :

"It has taken some time for the PMAV to respond to the derogatory posts of ‘Puddler Bill’ from Beechworth on this forum. We tossed up whether or not to dignify his rants with a response, but having learned that the posts have caused distress to our North East branch, we now feel inclined to put some facts on the table.

Puddler Bill is well known to the PMAV, his unreliability is legendary. We won’t go into full details, unless he continues to criticise the PMAV, but he either has a very short memory or is unwell. I will mention that some of our Foundation Members had serious issues with him in his short stint as PMAV Secretary. He was never PMAV Vice-President as his business website claims.

Puddler Bill accuses the North East branch of not making a submission to the VEAC investigation – this is not true. While the branch didn’t submit under its own name, the Gleeson’s and 12 other individual members did.

As the submission list on VEAC’s website: Link to list of submissions. indicates, Puddler Bill either in his own name or his business name did not bother to make a submission.

The North East Branch is a cohesive, interested and supportive bunch of prospectors. All their field trips, except one, have been prospecting related. It is wonderful that they enjoy each other’s company so much that they indulged on a social outing. I note they plan to repeat this in the future. What is wrong with this anyway?

Bill Tilley MP has been to three meetings, not one as claimed, and a social event which was a Christmas Camp with his partner and his children all who camped overnight. He has no problems with the branch and also enjoys their company.

Puddler Bill thinks I am too attached to the Liberal Party; if he had done his research properly he would have discovered that when I stood as an Independent in the 2006 State Election, my preferences flowed to the ALP and were responsible for Labor achieving another seat in the Upper House.

If Puddler Bill has political ambitions for a Prospectors Party he really does have rocks in his head. In 2006, in addition to the prospecting community, I had the support of 4WD Victoria, Sporting Shooters, Field and Game, Trail Bike Riders, etc etc. We raised almost $30,000 towards my campaign and lots of energy was spent as well. I ended up with a miniscule 1300 votes or less than 1% of the vote!

At the recent State Election, PMAV Ballarat Branch president James Keays stood for Country Alliance in the seat of Buninyong. He asked for assistance to hand out how to vote cards. There were four people doing so on Election Day, Lester Fisher, Wallace Young, my husband David and me (that makes three from Melbourne and one from Ballarat).

Puddler Bill did not support James in any way at all so please go launch your own political ambitions somewhere else.

Yes, the PMAV worked closely with the Coalition while in Government and we plan to work closely with the Andrews’ Labor Government now that they are in charge. The PMAV has always worked with the Government of the day. Of course we all have personal preferences, but we put those aside for our PMAV work.

What really annoyed me about Puddler Bill’s ramblings were his accusations about the North East Branch. To say that the North East Branch is useless is very demeaning. They reformed in 2000 (not a few years ago) and their branch has gone from strength to strength. I am proud of each and every one of the PMAV’s branches. They do amazing work in support of prospectors and the PMAV generally. I believe that our branch network has never been healthier and more cohesive. The North East Branch under the guidance of Anne and Bill Gleeson has been a standout. They have the Committee’s 100% confidence and support.

I hope this will be the end of this discussion. The PMAV has important work to do to get better access for Victoria’s prospectors and miners and we will not waste our time responding to unjustifiable rants.

Rita Bentley, PMAV President.

Well said Rita and informative in regards to Puddler Bill. Yes I think he is a problem in getting his facts right. And for Puddler starting a Prospectors Party, I think I've got a better chance of getting permission from Wifie in getting the new GPX7000
Also Lynnie "thanks" for putting up this thread.

wombat

Don't remember " puddler Bill" writing that on this forum, I don't even think he is a member here?
But he did on this one 
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?id=10065&p=1

your right Jen and I think Lynnie is going to put it on that site as well.
wombat

Jen58 wrote:Don't remember " puddler Bill" writing that on this forum, I don't even think he is a member here?
But he did on this one 
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?id=10065&p=1

Jen58,

I have been a member on the Prospecting Australia's forum for a few years. When Nugget was owner, he created a section for the PMAV, hence me being the handle name of PMAV on that forum now, so it shows I have only been a new members lol

It has been posted there also

Thanks

Mate

Lynnie1966 wrote:

Jen58 wrote:Don't remember " puddler Bill" writing that on this forum, I don't even think he is a member here?
But he did on this one 
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?id=10065&p=1

Jen58,

I have been a member on the Prospecting Australia's forum for a few years. When Nugget was owner, he created a section for the PMAV, hence me being the handle name of PMAV on that forum now, so it shows I have only been a new members lol

It has been posted there also

Thanks

Mate

All good Lynnie

Lynnie were about is this topic mentioned at the Prospecting Australia Forum.??? I think it has been deleted.
wombat

Wombat wrote:Lynnie were about is this topic mentioned at the Prospecting Australia Forum.??? I think it has been deleted.
wombat  

It was there, then poof! Like a cloud of dust it was gone 

Is'nt it marvellous that Puddler Bill was allowed to bag Rita Bentley, North East Branch, and the PMAV in general and nothing was done about it. But as soon as the PMAV wants the right of reply POOF and the reply disappears. The Jack Boots have struck again.
wombat

I wonder if they have given Lynnie a reason to remove her post..
Yes I agree with you there Bill, it's a one way street!!

Not happy 

Lynnie1966 wrote:Gidday members,

I wish to post this on behalf of our President, Rita Bentley. Rita has asked me to place this post here, to clear up some matters :

"It has taken some time for the PMAV to respond to the derogatory posts of ‘Puddler Bill’ from Beechworth on this forum. We tossed up whether or not to dignify his rants with a response, but having learned that the posts have caused distress to our North East branch, we now feel inclined to put some facts on the table.

Puddler Bill is well known to the PMAV, his unreliability is legendary. We won’t go into full details, unless he continues to criticise the PMAV, but he either has a very short memory or is unwell. I will mention that some of our Foundation Members had serious issues with him in his short stint as PMAV Secretary. He was never PMAV Vice-President as his business website claims.

Puddler Bill accuses the North East branch of not making a submission to the VEAC investigation – this is not true. While the branch didn’t submit under its own name, the Gleeson’s  and 12 other individual members did.

As the submission list on VEAC’s website: Link to list of submissions. indicates, Puddler Bill either in his own name or his business name did not bother to make a submission.

The North East Branch is a cohesive, interested and supportive bunch of prospectors. All their field trips, except one, have been prospecting related. It is wonderful that they enjoy each other’s company so much that they indulged on a social outing. I note they plan to repeat this in the future. What is wrong with this anyway?

Bill Tilley MP has been to three meetings, not one as claimed, and a social event which was a Christmas Camp with his partner and his children all who camped overnight. He has no problems with the branch and also enjoys their company.

Puddler Bill thinks I am too attached to the Liberal Party; if he had done his research properly he would have discovered that when I stood as an Independent in the 2006 State Election, my preferences flowed to the ALP and were responsible for Labor achieving another seat in the Upper House.

If Puddler Bill has political ambitions for a Prospectors Party he really does have rocks in his head. In 2006, in addition to the prospecting community, I had the support of 4WD Victoria, Sporting Shooters, Field and Game, Trail Bike Riders, etc etc.  We raised almost $30,000 towards my campaign and lots of energy was spent as well.  I ended up with a miniscule 1300 votes or less than 1% of the vote!

At the recent State Election, PMAV Ballarat Branch president James Keays stood for Country Alliance in the seat of Buninyong. He asked for assistance to hand out how to vote cards. There were four people doing so on Election Day, Lester Fisher, Wallace Young, my husband David and me (that makes three from Melbourne and one from Ballarat).

Puddler Bill did not support James in any way at all so please go launch your own political ambitions somewhere else.

Yes, the PMAV worked closely with the Coalition while in Government and we plan to work closely with the Andrews’ Labor Government now that they are in charge. The PMAV has always worked with the Government of the day. Of course we all have personal preferences, but we put those aside for our PMAV work.

What really annoyed me about Puddler Bill’s ramblings were his accusations about the North East Branch. To say that the North East Branch is useless is very demeaning. They reformed in 2000 (not a few years ago) and their branch has gone from strength to strength.  I am proud of each and every one of the PMAV’s branches. They do amazing work in support of prospectors and the PMAV generally. I believe that our branch network has never been healthier and more cohesive. The North East Branch under the guidance of Anne and Bill Gleeson has been a standout. They have the Committee’s 100% confidence and support.

I hope this will be the end of this discussion. The PMAV has important work to do to get better access for Victoria’s prospectors and miners and we will not waste our time responding to unjustifiable rants.

Rita Bentley, PMAV President.

Rita, i am rather dismayed at your decision to post this.

A professional organization who should be working for the rights of all prospectors and miners, a group of which i am a member, resorting to finger pointing and mud slinging, then calling it self defence.

Now firstly let me point out that if the PMAV think that Puddler Bill is without his supporters, you are mistaken.

I dont know what went on politically and personally between your organization and PB, so i will refrain from commenting about this. In fact, its none of my business.

I know PB personally as a prospector and miner, and he is one of the damn finest i have seen both in his knowledge and application. Far above most.

Yes he has been critical of the PMAV in the past but you know what, if you cant take a bit of criticism on the chin, cop it sweet and simply ignore it as baseless rant (your words), then this gets me thinking about your credibility.

PMAV wrote:Puddler Bill accuses the North East branch of not making a submission to the VEAC investigation – this is not true. While the branch didn’t submit under its own name, the Gleeson’s  and 12 other individual members did.

The branch did not submit under its own name you say.....why not?

We all know what went on over at PA regarding this topic last time when the PMAV decided to chime in, which up until this thread, had already died away into the cyber wilderness and long been forgotten.
Your choice has been to raise its ugly head again.

Yes i did notice your attempt to have all the dirty laundry aired on PA again but it was shot down quickly, and rightly so!

If you want to defend your organization and justify your existence, I would think it more professional to do so by showing PB he was wrong by achieving solid results for us.....the prospectors and miners.

I dont wish to be critical of the PMAV, you are all we have at this point in time, I appreciate your efforts and i show my support willingly, but this is school yard stuff Rita.

As for you Wombat, you should know better than to bag PA and its members openly here, then come over asking for support to launch your intended Geelong Branch. I respect your work Bill and all you do for the PMAV, but if you think that this place is your little hiding hole where you can dish dirt, your again mistaken....we see it mate!

Rita, surely you can see past the trees and realize that you will be creating division among us all by continuing this useless fight against PB.

Let sleeping dogs lie, unite us all with your leadership so that we may be strong in our fight for what is rightly ours in the bush!

Many thanks

I must say that Rita and Puddler Bill sit down together over a coffee and talk.
Talking face to face makes a lot of people see things differently.

I have been in contact with Puddler Bill re this thread and he is now aware of it.

I offered my friend the opportunity to say a word in response and told him i would do so on his behalf.

He left the decision entirely up to me whether to post this response or not.

At first i hesitated, but now feel it relevant to do so as we may just have lost one of our most loyal and bravest supporters towards our cause as Prospectors and Miners.....our rights in the bush!

Puddler Bill wrote: "After the disturbing and defamatory response by Rita Bentley, I have made a decision which is best for all.
As I have stated previously the PMAV has done some fabulous work for its members and I applaud that, and encourage people to join. I do not agree with petitions though. They achieve nothing.
My political ambitions were totally unselfish, and were simply to try and raise awareness of mining issues in North East Victoria.
The lack of votes for the Ballaarat PMAV member in the last State Election is exactly why I was trying to form a political party. One minnow in a sea of sharks is hardly noticed. But a school of minnows, can make a difference.
I hereby and publicly make it known that I will no longer be making any further attempt to form a Political Party to represent prospectors.
As a full time professional prospector and miner I will simply devote my time to furthering my mining interests in North East Victoria.
In fact you will not hear from me either in the media, or on any prospecting forums in the future.
I make this decision in the interests of keeping harmony amongst the prospecting community.
I just hope, when access to public land is threatened, that you all do something as individuals to protect your pastime.
Those who choose to criticise and ridicule me should ask themselves what have they done to defend our rights.
I am done."
Puddler Bill.

Futher more

Puddler Bill wrote: Faultzone thanks for your support. If you wish to post this I don't mind. It's up to you. I am simply going to disappear from the public profile which I have held for many years up here in the North East. Local T.V and radio as well as newspapers usually contact me for info when gold stories are in the news but I simply no longer am prepared to stick my neck out. I copped it in the neck when local Greens MP Jenny O'Connor went on t.v. and commented on sluicing bans. I was given 5 minutes literally to join the news crew and formulate a story. I have a young family at home and I am sure they will appreciate the extra time spent with them.

Way to go guys.....thanks for helping to take a true miner and a wealth of knowledge from us!

We are done here.

Faultzone these are the comments (in red) that Puddler Bill made in regards to the PMAV, Rita Bentley and the North East Branch. These comment were allowed to go through by the Mods on the PA site. on the topic about Miner Right costs. That to me is up to the Mods on that site if they are going to let these comment go through or not, as they run the site for the good of all. But as the Mods have let this slip through and allowed it to been shown on a World Wide Web for all to see, then Rita Bentley and the PMAV should have the right of reply to these aligations made by Puddler Bill.
In regards to me I was not bagging the members, but I have had dealings with the Mods either deleating my posts or modifing it. Example, to the PMAV Geelong post without telling me the reason why. But I do have to say after reasoning with the Managerment they have restored all my topics. I might have beena bit heavy with the remark "jack Boots " sorry. I also knew that this topic will be seen by others from the PA site.
As for the Geelong post I did not come over to the PA site to ask for support to start up a Geelong Branch. I was only interested in seeing if any one would be interested in have a PMAV branch down that way. I have put this topic on other forums as well.
I do what I can to help and support prospectors and prospecting in general, but when it comes to the PMAV and the support and hard work they have done over the years for prospecting and then get bagged for it, thats another story.
wombat  


MemberJoined: 02 February 2014Posts: 166 Email  Message09 January 2015 10:33 pm

Lynnie,
I have been involved in fighting Govt. departments since the 80's with regards to mining issues, many as a PMAV member and office bearer. The big issue I have is that the PMAV has well and truly made known their political allegiance to the Liberal Party a few years back when the President stood for pre-selection for a seat in Melbourne. The same party who shafted us before the last state election.So there is no way we will get fair treatment from the Labour / Green alliance.
I did suggest to the PMAV President in writing that the PMAV should form a political party. It is THE ONLY WAY we have a chance of getting our plight known. I sent a well informed letter offering suggestions to this effect and didn't even get the courtesy of a reply.
Lobby groups as such get brushed aside by Government Departments.
I would challenge anyone to show me anything the PMAV has won in many years. It's not a criticism of the PMAV, rather a statement of the obvious. Lobby groups don't work, just ask the Mountain Cattlemen's Association.What we are up against is a well oiled machine known as the Victorian National Parks Association. They get funding from many areas but one of the main fund givers is the Victorian Branch of the Australian Labour Party. The VNPA makes suggestions, and as a not for profit group get funding for researchers to provide them with the information they need to get what they want.
The Shooters Party, the Motoring Party, and other minority groups realised this and are now being heard in Parliament. Even the bloody sex party get a seat.
As I have said, THE ONLY WAY TO BEAT THESE GROUPS THAT OPPOSE PROSPECTING is to form a political party. I would happily stand in my electorate at the next state election. Its as much about creating awareness of Prospecting as a recreational pastime, as it is winning votes.
If you think I am being harsh here, and some of you will, which is fine, I am saying this because for too many years we have relied on banner waving, and other stunts like that to get noticed.
And has it worked? NO it hasn't. We lost dredging, we are losing access to National Parks, we may lose sluicing in all Parks and possibly in totality.
The PMAV President is 100 percent wrong when she says she knows of no plans to restrict access for prospectors. It is well documented that as a result of the VEAC inquiry into new prospecting areas in National Parks, the Veac findings says quite clearly that there will be restrictions on equipment used, and removing access to areas such as the Woolshed Valley, and other national parks are likely.
I spoke to a Ranger in Charge a few days back, and he indicated that there were changes which would affect us. he wouldn't say what but when I showed him a proposal to run some activities in a Park in my area, he said he would have no problem with a history tour, but couldn't approve a prospecting tour.
That says it all.
The next State Election is just under 4 years away. So if you are really serious you will give this some serious thought.Puddler BillMemberJoined: 02 February 2014Posts: 166 Email  Message10 January 2015 06:46 am

Thanks Wayne,
I am a former Vice President and Secretary of the State branch of the PMAV, and have sent Rita an email in regards to this after the last AGM and did not get the courtesy of a reply. I am in the process of forming a group up here in the North East with the sole purpose of forming a political party to fight the pollies and to form an alliance with a political party and another very prominent group, The Mountain Cattlemen's Association.
It is my opinion that when a lobby group sends someone to your home to tell you to stop talking to the media about prospecting issues, then they get no respect from me. This is why prospectors have such a low public profile. Only one person, Rita, is allowed to talk to the media if you are in the PMAV.This attitude is what closed the North East branch down a few years back, and the new North East branch, would rather sit on the banks of the Murray River at Yarrawonga drinking beer, than do anything to promote prospecting. They didn't even put a submission into VEAC. They are useless. Many people up here agree with me on this too.Might sound harsh here and I am but I have seen too many areas lost to prospecting because of the lobby group mentality.
It's time for each and every person to make a stand as an individual.
Oh, and in case any one is wondering I run my own mining business.
HeadsUp, Hunting the yellow, stoyve, Metamorphic
#80 Puddler BillMemberJoined: 02 February 2014Posts: 166 Email  Message11 January 2015 10:09 pm

My final wordS on this are as follows.
Everyone will be judged by the effort they have made to keep prospecting alive as a recreational and for some of us an income earning way of life. We are under fire from the Greens and the Victorian National Parks Association.
If we all want to continue this way of life then we need to become pro-active in regards to how we are perceived by the non prospecting public, the media, and the politicians.
Just signing a petition is NOT proactive. It is old school and a total waste of time. Do you really think the Politicians read them?
No they don't.
So if you out there are serious about doing something to save us from the loss of access to areas in the future then you need to become pro-active.
The only way to halt the loss of access and fight the Greens and the VNPA is to form a political party.
For those who have taken it on themselves to hurl abuse about my comments That's fine, I am not fazed by this.
I am making a huge effort in my own personal time as a volunteer to try and save all of your rights to prospect on public land, I don't have to do this.
If my words have seemed harsh in regards to the PMAV, I do not apologise.
I did email Rita after the last AGM in regards to this, and did not get the courtesy of a reply as I have previously stated.
I was suggesting to her what I have posted on this forum, that is to stop the ever growing tide of Greens etc, the PMAV needs to form a political party. I tried to help the PMAV but they have not responded, so don't criticise me.
As to why someone was sent to my home address a few years ago to shut me up. It was because I went on live radio highlighting the fact that the then Minister for Minerals etc. Mr Theo Theophanous was doing his best to stop Miners Rights being sold at all. He was trying to stop prospecting. I made phone calls to the Mines Department or what name they used at the time and spoke to every person from the front desk person up to the then Warden, and finally Theophanous secretary. Then the ABC radio got Theophanous on a live chat, and he refused to comment about his actions to stop the sales of Miners Rights. The efforts made by other parties to prevent this didn't work. This was all in my own time.
The result of my actions resulted in Miners Rights still being sold to prospectors. In fact the person who knocked on my door apologised a few years later when he realised I was right all along and admitted that he was told by the PMAV President to shut me up. I have copies of the radio interview and other correspondence.
The greens tv segment about Hydraulic sluicing on t.v. recently. I was the miner given 5 minutes to put something to present in front of a camera. At least it got Statewide coverage for prospectors and it made the Greens look silly. At least I did something.
In regards to the North East Branch of the PMAV. Ask them why they did not represent the members of their branch by putting in a submission to Veac about the National Parks prospecting access inquiry? Why did they not represent all recreational prospectors in fact.
In regards to the comment about them being beer swillers. Not my words.
Yes they do a few things like panning demo's and clean up day along the creek. But it needs more than that.
The question I will pose here, is why has there been only one PMAV meeting in North East Victoria in the last 20 years? To finish, I am going to leave with a very strong statement.
When our rights as prospectors are eroded, and we are locked out of more and more areas, I want you to look in the mirror and ask yourself. What did I do to prevent this??? Thank you.

Faultzone that reply from Pubbler Bill saying he will not form a prospecting party because of Rita's reply is Bull Sh!t. This is a reply from Rita in regards to comment about her, the PMAV and the North East Branch. Nothing really to do with him forming a political party, but if Puddler Bill want to use this as an excuse to pull out of forming his party, so be it. But it will not be because of these alligations or Rita's right of reply. Puddler Bill is not a doer but a gona( as stated by another member from the PA site. I also know Puddler Bill and I've know him for over 15 years and yes his a nice a enough chap to talk to but that is as far as it go's
So please mate don't try and put the blame on us or the PMAV for Puddler Bill pulling out of forming a Prospecting Party, that he had no intention in forming in the first place.
wombat

Yes Bill i am well aware of that thread as you know.

As I stated earlier, I do not know the intricate details of the past history between PB and the PMAV, nor do i wish too. Politics is not my scene, prospecting and mining is.

As a full time prospector, my only concern is being able to put food on the table.

Its been weeks now since that thread ended, I just thought it odd that the issue was raised again here today by the PMAV simply saying they wished to defend comments made by PB which were deemed as unfavorable towards them.
I mean WTF? the time lapse struck me as very odd indeed which all the more had me leaning towards this whole issue being more of a personal vendetta rather than a chance to voice a word in defence.
I know you understand why i felt like this.

Moderators of any forum can edit posts, delete them or even delete entire threads without having to explain reasons why to any of those affected, surely you know this.
Whether your management within the PMAV or just a nobody like myself, it doesnt matter.

I was offended by some of the comments you made here but you have since retracted them and i respect that......no more said mate!

Lets all just band together and not create any rock fissures between forums on the net, or organizations and its members. We have already lost too much.
As I said what we need is unity, not division.

I love this forum as much as i do PA, there are many great people on both, but I just feel that there is an 'us and them' mentality towards that relationship.

Lets hope this will all be put in the past behind us so we can move on and tend to the important stuff.

Thanks for your time in responding to this Bill, i know your a busy man and its much appreciated.

Many thanks  

Edit: Mate im not to concerned about the political party, my concern is that we have lost a great knowledge on the forums. This guy has taught me so much in the past, gave his time freely and was always the first to share. Thats what hurts me most.
I dont blame you personally, but this whole saga i feel sure has contributed to it.

Enough said.....Nite mate!

Faultzone I appreciate and respect your comments and your concerns about this topic. As you said this is not between forums as both forums are there for the brotherhood of all prospectors and the enjoyment of prospecting. I will agree that there is a time lapse from when the statements were made and the time of reply, but with many things happening through the PMAV over the last couple of months Christmas break, organising Australia Day weekend, and the committee not sitting until late Jan to discuss this and many other topics, this is the reason for the late reply. As you said let's now move on. Nothing personal to you mate and I hope and sure we'll enjoy seeing each other on the net and in person.
Cheers mate
wombat

PMAV should be spending their energy on fighting the government, not our members. We all know that's a false economy.

UNITED WE STAND!

cheers