PROSPECTORS: Kiss the Palmer River Goldfields Goodbye

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Post  nero_design on Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:48 am

http://www.cairns.com.au/article/2011/11/08/190235_local-news.html

United Nations conference hears Wild Rivers anger

Tuesday, November 8, 2011
© The Cairns Post


A UNITED NATIONS conference was told of the frustration and anger Cape York traditional owners feel towards Wild Rivers laws.

Indigenous advocate Harold Ludwick travelled to Geneva, Switzerland last month to address the UN Research Institute on Social Development, alongside Mike Winer from the Cape York Institute and Helen Murphy from the National Chengchi University in Taiwan.
Mr Ludwick said he attended as a traditional owner of Cape York who was “fed up with innuendoes and displacement” as a result of the Wild Rivers legislation and the area’s looming World Heritage status.

Mr Ludwick spoke about the difficulties communities faced in trying to create sustainable development as a result of conservation laws that served to prolong poverty and unemployment.

"Being there with people from Third World countries, it was a real eye opener to see they have the same problems as we have here in a developed country," he said.
The trio have been asked to submit a paper to attend the Rio + 20 Convention on Sustainable Development and the Eradication of Poverty next year.

_________________________________________________

It would appear that many prospectors are furious that recent submissions to the Unites Nations will declare the Palmer River Goldfields a no-go area for gold hunters as the new "Wild River Laws" are adopted. If World Heritage Status is granted (and it will almost certainly be), Queenslanders and Australians collectively will be left with yet less land to fossick on without threat of abominable fines and threat of imprisonment.
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Post  Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:43 pm

I just cant believe the people and government would just let this happen.
So idiotic. Us private detectors / specimin hunters (whatever you like to call us) are hurting nobody.
Could actually be helping economy.
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Post  Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:37 pm

PROSPECTORS:  Kiss the Palmer River Goldfields Goodbye WTF


That area has always been on my 'to do' list.

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Post  Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:15 pm

Panther, It is also on our "to do list" next year - only 6 mths to go.. We also have an area that we want to try that I do not think detectors have been to. Still trying to establish if where we want to go is an area we can go or taboo. We do have gps coordinates. We came across this area 3 1/2 years ago without our detector and by our research there is supposedly no mines of any sort there or in area, but tripped over this spot by accident, a small area which definatly showed old mining from the early century. Prehaps records were lost of this area/spot, or never declared/notified of.
This is a spot where you would have to be well off beaten track a long way. I wont go into how we stumbled over it. 'gold'? was shallow as shafts and trenches were very shallow.

How can we all as a group stop and even open up areas so that us humble hobby / detectorist people get more area's? We certainly are not causing destruction of the land. Other minority groups seem to have ways of 'getting ther way'.
It would be interesting how many people out there would class prospecting as a hobby, if we could get numbers politicians may sort of listen!
travelergold Smile Smile Smile

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Post  Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:29 pm

The trouble is, these baskets work behind our backs as they know what they do creates an uproar. They haven't the guts to approach groups the right way as they know they would be put down. I think they get their rocks off on it.

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Post  Goldbait on Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:32 pm

As a true white australian with a past heritage that invaded and colonised this land, i don't recognise their rights. I recognise they have the same right to access our land, but not to stop us from doing what we wish in this land we colonised.
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Post  Flakmagnet on Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:58 am

Have any on you heard of WSPA (Western States Prospectors Association) here in the US?
it was started about four or five years ago by a detecting partner of mine, Dennis Miller.
The idea is that a group of people band together and acquire a number of claims.
WSPA now owns claims in Arizona, California and Nevada - I don't know the exact number.
Starting WSPA had all the usual slight teething problems of a new organization,
but in fact it has worked incredibly well.
I believe it now numbers about sixty or seventy people and I
think there is a cap of around 120 on the membership to keep it from getting unwieldy.

We now "own" many claims (by staking the claim markers, doing the assessment work and paying the fees),
where we are able to camp, detect, sluice, pan, dry wash.
We have club officers who are elected by the membership,
we pay annual dues which are mainly used to purchase other claims.
We have a number of outings during the year in different locations where we not only
prospect but do clean-up work and have meetings concerning administrative and legislative aspects of the organization.
We are responsible in our actions knowing that we can set an example should regulatory groups care to take a look.
We are not active politically preferring to keep a low profile.

There is a WSPA website that is password protected where members can
stay up-to-date with club information, gossip, opinions etc.
There are a number of WSPA members who frequent this forum
who may want to write in finer detail on how the club works.
It has proved itself as a workable solution to the shrinking possibilities that continue to hamper us all.

The membership of this forum is the most interesting, experienced, informed and well-intentioned
internet group I have run across and there is no doubt you have the combined ability
to form an organization that not only could find a way to own a group of claims that could be used in common,
but you also have the means to provide a shining example of what our hobby is really about -
your forum and the way it is conducted is a case in point.

Perhaps this is not the thread to post this information,
but I wanted to get the idea started.




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Post  Jonathan Porter on Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:05 am

Goldbait wrote:As a true white australian with a past heritage that invaded and colonised this land, i don't recognise their rights. I recognise they have the same right to access our land, but not to stop us from doing what we wish in this land we colonised.
I feel this sort of comment should not be put up on a public forum of this caliber, MODS where are you?. Suspect

As for the wild rivers concept, the vast majority of communities in the Cape are against the idea as it locks them out of being able to create any sort of industry tourist or otherwise, Google Noel Pearson and see what he has to say about it. Who is Noel Pearson LINK

Wild Rivers Link

Logic would suggest the Palmer River would not be included in a Wild Rivers lock out (I need to check more up on this) probably mainly due to that fact that it is no longer pristine and has not been since the 1870s, vast areas within the Palmer River Historical Reserve have been stripped mined from the early 80s on since the price off Tin tanked, also there is already a Reserve over the area to protect it from us hole digging marauding metal detector operators!! affraid scratch Suspect

JP
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Post  Fly_Dirt on Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:24 am

Here is the link to the Qld Government site on Wild Rivers:

http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/wildrivers/

Declared Wild River Areas:

http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/wildrivers/declared_areas.html

Proposed Wild River Area:

http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/wildrivers/proposed_areas.html#supporting_information

Currently under proposal is the Cooper Creek Basin wild river area and Georgina Diamantina Basin wild river area.

Guild to Mining & Fossicking:

http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/factsheets/pdf/water/wr18.pdf



Last edited by Fly_Dirt on Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:29 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : more info)
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Post  Guest on Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:56 am

There is vast difference between pegging a claim in the USA & Australia!
The various state governments are pretty much anti mining in all states of Australia, politics is controlled by left wing green extremists!
Small scale mining is an industry that is heavilly overregulated and dying a small but certain death!
In the state of Victoria the Miners Right claim system virtually vanished in the late 80s early 90s, to peg a claim in the little remaining potential ground would be a very expensive and drawn out process. I personally know many small scale miners who died before getting a claim approved, others took up to 20 years and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars jumping thru the hoops with no guarentee of the claim being granted? Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Mad Question

For the most part small scale prospecting in Victoria is now exclusively hobbyists, i doubt a New49ers style operation as exists in the US would ever eventuate here under current
restrictions and the way things are headed, (low carbon economy). Despite the efforts of a few dedicated groups we are sadly losing the battle. The Communists are litery eroding our freedoms like a Hydraulic monitor!

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Post  Goldbait on Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:07 am

JP every member has a right to express their opinions, otherwise this would not be a public forum. I believe i kept within the forum rules when i posted that as nothing i stated was racist. I believe that when PM Kevin Rudd said "sorry" to the stolen generation, the aboriginal people of this land were meant to be treated equally like all australians. I've worked very close with the aboriginal community so i believe I can make comments such as those from my experiences. And for all intent and purpose, scholors changed the wording in which we acquired this land. I believe it was from colonised to invaded. I stand by my comment and will not be removing my post.

Flakmagnet, that sounds like an excellent idea, but like monoloop said, there is so much red tape in Australia it takes years to get claims/leases approved. Not trying to put a damp rug on the idea, i'd be all for it and willing to help anyone who had the time to start the process rolling.
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Post  Jonathan Porter on Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:52 am

Goldbait wrote:JP every member has a right to express their opinions, otherwise this would not be a public forum. I believe i kept within the forum rules when i posted that as nothing i stated was racist. I believe that when PM Kevin Rudd said "sorry" to the stolen generation, the aboriginal people of this land were meant to be treated equally like all australians. I've worked very close with the aboriginal community so i believe I can make comments such as those from my experiences. And for all intent and purpose, scholors changed the wording in which we acquired this land. I believe it was from colonised to invaded. I stand by my comment and will not be removing my post.

GB, you have every right to your view points thats not why I was asking for the post to be removed, it was the way it was worded and can surely only lead to problems on the forum with people inevitably expressing opinions left right and centre because it is a highly emotive subject, thereby getting away from the original subject of the potential loss of access to a gold producing area originally put up by Marco.

If you take the time to follow the links I've provided you will soon see that the local aboriginal population of the Cooktown area are against the Wild Rivers scheme particularly Noel Pearson, so your comments might seem out of vogue with the current attitudes of the peoples of Cape York, indigenous or otherwise.

JP
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Post  Guest on Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:02 am

Goldbait wrote:As a true white Australian with a past heritage that invaded and colonised this land, I don't recognise their rights. I recognise they have the same right to access our land, but not to stop us from doing what we wish in this land we colonised.

this post raises lots of questions like who we are? to treat ALL Australians as equals ,to best manage this land as WE the Australian nation see fit ect.ect. In today's climate it certainly isn't PC to post such an opinion but its MY opinion that as it dosent incite racial hatred it should be left where it is "I might not always agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it"
Can some one tell me when my two sons ( white Anglo Saxon heritage ) will become Indigenous ? although their parents were born in Ireland they were not so in my eyes they are true Australians ! when I was going to school the dictionary defined an Indigenous person as " To be born of or belong to" so in that context even if I become an Australian Citizen by the consent of the Australian Government I will always be an Indigenous Irishman .

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Post  slugsbrother on Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:12 pm

Jonathan Porter wrote:

If you take the time to follow the links I've provided you will soon see that the local aboriginal population of the Cooktown area are against the Wild Rivers scheme particularly Noel Pearson, so your comments might seem out of vogue with the current attitudes of the peoples of Cape York, indigenous or otherwise.

JP
Dont know about you but I would rather hear what Goldbait has to say more so than what that racist Pearson does.
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Post  Geronimo Reilly on Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:27 pm

Can you explain what you mean by that comment slugsbrother. scratch scratch
Geronimo.
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Post  slugsbrother on Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:37 pm

Geronimo Reilly wrote: Can you explain what you mean by that comment slugsbrother. scratch scratch
Geronimo.

I think my comment was fairly self explanatory.
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Post  Ironstone on Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:51 am

hey All,
I spent about 3 weeks around maytown in june 2010.Loved it and will be possible going up near there in 2012,(Hodgkinsom river and the wenlock,if I still can.)when i was coming out they were doing the road,so it's probably now open to caravans (OHHH NOOO).WILL THIS EFFECT THE PRESENT LEASES OR NOT ?????.camped on German bar and read the book "rivers of gold" what a experience,on my own except for for a lady that camps near there and works for a lease holder.Would love to go back.
Ironstone.
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Post  marty on Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:22 am

Hi Ironstone,i"ve detected up there in those areas , it is isolated and very bueatifull country.I really can not see why those places can"t be open to prospectors,campers etc.We should all be able to experience the history and bueaty of this country.

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Post  The Modern Day Prospector on Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:07 pm


Wild Rivers Act crushes Aborigines: Pearson




Queensland LNP leader Campbell Newman with Noel Pearson at the announcement the LNP will overturn the Wild Rivers legislation. Picture: Cassey Brian Source: News Limited


NOEL Pearson has backed the Liberal National Party's plan to scrap wild rivers declarations on Cape York, castigating the laws as a "green foot" crushing the throats of Aborigines.

As Queensland Premier Anna Bligh warned that the move would allow rampant mining, Gulf of Carpentaria indigenous leader Murrandoo Yanner slammed the LNP for promising to roll back the protection legislation.

Signalling a widening divide between indigenous factions, Mr Yanner said LNP leader Campbell Newman had listened only to Mr Pearson and his allies in developing the policy.

"Mr Pearson does not have support in Aboriginal Queensland, particularly in the Gulf, the northwest and his own region, in the Cape," Mr Yanner said, adding that he had been contacted by many traditional owners who supported wild rivers.

Mr Newman said an LNP government would repeal the declarations over four Cape York river systems that set a 1km buffer zone around the protected rivers to restrict mining and dams.


He refused to commit on the other seven river systems declared wild across Queensland, including some in the Gulf and on Fraser Island.

That sparked anger from Mr Yanner and southwest Queensland traditional owner Scott Gorringe, who said they feared Mr Newman would scrap the entire protection regime.

Mr Newman said he would replace the wild rivers declarations on Cape York with a bio-region management plan. "We want strong environmental protections for those iconic natural areas . . . but our plan would see all Cape York properly managed, properly protected," he said.

Cape York Land Council chairman Richie Ah Mat and Mr Pearson welcomed Mr Newman's announcement.

Mr Pearson said the Wild Rivers Act was "concocted by green groups in Brisbane in return for green preferences".

"We believe that there is a way forward for conservation, development and Aboriginal land rights," he said. "I want to see whitefellas, blackfellas and greenfellas all working for a balanced future.

"At the moment what we've had under the Wilderness Society and the Labor government is the greenfellas putting their foot on our throats."

The spokeswoman for the Queensland Greens, Libby Connors, said no preference deal specifically on wild rivers had been done with Labor. She said Mr Newman's plan showed he would do anything to push the "pro big-miner agenda".

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Post  The Modern Day Prospector on Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:11 pm

When I was going to school the dictionary defined an Indigenous person as " To be born of or belong to" so in that context even if I become an Australian Citizen by the consent of the Australian Government I will always be an Indigenous Irishman ..


Murachu


Mate you are right.


Cheers Brian.





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Post  Imadogman on Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:41 pm

Where are you Peter Lalor?

I agree with JP about where key focus of the Wild Rivers concerns should be. It is about maintaining access to good detecting/fossicking country – not just in the Palmer but all over the Cape. Venting about past decisions around land rights or other will not affect tomorrow’s outcomes because the show has moved on and won't ever be turned back. We should however be very concerned about the green lockout that is going on – not just in Cape York but in forests, national parks, special reserves etc. and all over the country as well.

Our biggest problem is that we are not an organised force – no national PMAV http://www.pmav.org.au/ and that is really a pity. Because we have no passionate, organised voice we can’t get heard. We are a collective of individuals gathered in a forum to talk about our hobby. Perhaps Bob Katter’s party would be interested in picking up the cause; or Noel Pearson if we can make what we want work for him; or the various Shooters and Fishers parties. As they say hard times can make strange bedfellows! A black and gold alliance in the offing?

The Wild Rivers is supposed to be doing consultation but it is hard for them to consult with an unorganised group. Although PMAV could probably put something to them. I also reckon that all of the interested parties in the PMAV links http://www.pmav.org.au/links-mainmenu-23/15-sites-that-support-our-goal would have the capacity to have a say as well. But we need to make it easy for them by articulating the argument.

We could also individually send emails to both state and federal MPs & Senators in Queensland requesting the wild rivers severe restrictions on fossicking and small scale mining be revisited. If members know them or live in their electorates, get onto them, in the street and the the school fetes. Politically the smartest way to help ourselves is to make sure that Ms Bligh loses the next state election and that we hitch ourselves to new Govt under Newman. As least he says he will scrap it!

Personally I am not worried about interests of big miners because they have a bunch of lawyers that can represent them. Also, although I am only new to the sport of detecting, it is clear that the impact we make on the environment is tiny compared to large scale mining operations. We should not be lumped in with the mining industry because the scale is totally different. We are not miners in the industrial sense of the word.

We also make a fantastic contribution to local economies through ‘fossicking tourism’. Huge importance in Nth Qld where tourism is reeling from high AUD and internal airfares. And every detecting shop north of the Tweed should be onto this as well!

Is there an expert on the forum with a bit of time to come up with a systematic critique of the rules around fossicking that are forming part of the Wild Rivers stuff? If members could elaborate on the benefits we would bring to the Cape area – if permitted to fossick in a free but responsible manner – that could also be really useful.

A personal representation by JP, who could represent our interests, would also be valuable! (JP – are you our Lalor?) cheers

We could then bombard officialdom with a considered viewpoint and co-opt others to do the same. I would be willing to draft a standard letter that we could individually amend and send to the pollies. My own family connections go back to the Palmer, Coen, Wenlock and Ebagoolah fields. I want to get up there soon to rediscover my own roots – and therefore find this fight a fight worth pursuing!!

This approach is potentially workable to make our voices heard – anywhere in Australia where interests of the little guys are being trampled by well-meaning but very blinkered conservation forces. We may criticise the greenies but they have been effective at changing the laws and they have done that through protest and lobbying.
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Post  Flakmagnet on Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:59 am

imadogman,

That is a well-put piece and one that readers of the forum hopefully take notice of.
If there were a unified and organized group to present our views
as opposed to individuals, it makes a huge and obvious difference for getting a message out.
It is something politicians know has power behind it.
If you have renowned and clear-speaking spokespeople who are informed about the issues
it makes it all the more so.
There are also members who probably have knowledge of how to navigate
the political maze and who can come up with an effective approach
for getting the information out to the right parties and in the right forums so-to-speak.

Hopefully this issue - about how important
the gold hunting and prospecting way of life is to us collectively as well as individually - will reach a critical mass.
Ideas like this sound idealistic and far-fetched in the beginning
until there is the collective realization that there is also
the real possibility of making a change.


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Post  Guest on Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:11 am

imadogman,
Thanks, well written. Somebody - Everybody needs to stand up and have a say. We may be a minority but at least if there is something done we may get one polly to listen and back our issues.
This country is for everybody and we all have a right to have access to it to use wisely and with care for it. Not just certain companies or groups.
If there is a letter drafted up I would love to sign it and send to every politician in the country.
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Post  Ironstone on Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:40 pm

Hey,
I did "CAMP" on German bar and met Pauline,We talked a few times and she did take me for a run and showed me around,A Nice FRIENDLY lady and she didn't seem to mind me CAMPING there.I didn't go to the camping ground as a fire was burning there.actually she invited to take me over to a lease holder and introduce them.At that time the German bar lease was no where near finalised.I think that if there is more trouble around maytown reserve then the law will come in and effect everyone,in particlular lease holders.Did Raymond finish the road in as they were working on it when i came out ??
Garry
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Post  SunriseBoy on Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:02 pm

As someone who was born and bred here in Oz, I think I'm entitled to comment on my countrymen.
We often squeal about the wrongs of various people or dept's. of govt.

Well, this crew are not Martians who have parachuted in a little while ago. They are just like you and me. They love home, family, the footy, a barbeque and a beer etc. So what the hell changes ordinary people when they get into a position of authority?

Allow me to be a conceited prick and tell you. Power! And the ego inflates exponentially and inversely proportionally to the level of intelligence of the poor luv that may be in question.

People who get into these positions love power (of whatever rank or status it might be) and to exercise it by "sticking it up 'em". Very Australian. Indeed, after sixty five years of trying to survive here, I've finally figured out what the words, dieu et mon droit, on the Oz coat of arms mean. They mean, "We'll fix this b**tard"!

Just check out the parking inspectors how they are forced by the various admin staff to go out and ticket cars. Check out the coppers. Check out local govt. boof-heads and councillors who've got little else to do than scratch their bums and pick their noses and come up with nothing more than 'you-beaut' brochures telling everyone what they've been 'doing' and raising taxes on the homes in which families (practically going out of their minds being choked to death with taxes and regualations) are endeavouring to survive. And I'm convinced they come up with their bright ideas when they are pulling the fluff out of their belly buttons sitting on the dunny in the morning before they go to work. (think Strop on The Paul Hogan Show) "Oh...yeah...vat's a good idea. I fink we oughda do vat".

It's just a pathetic truth (to me at least) that as the 'best country in the world' that we welcome the refugees with open arms and treat almost all of our own kind like tish!!!

What a bloody disgrace we've become.




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