Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

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Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  Stan O on Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:32 pm

G'day all,

Just received two new technology coils for the GPZ 7000: 10x9" and an 18" round. The guys making the coils say it's a completely revolutionary design that is very different to the one employed by ML. I was already very impressed by their prototype 18" coil that Dave (davsgold) and I tested here in WA. However, the prototype didn't harbour the new tech that those two coils have, which are the final production version available in a month or two. The primary aim of the new coils is to give us a greater depth advantage. Though versatility would play an important role too, with the larger coils providing more ground coverage (without the weight compromise of the ML 19" coil) and smaller coils for thick undergrowth areas, rubbishy diggings and cleaning up the patches. At the start of September I'll be going on a week-long trip to give the coils comprehensive testing over my patches. If the 18" prototype is anything to go by, those coils are bound to impress.

The video below shows that the little coil will be dynamite on small gold. The test nugget is the one I found on my last trip with the prototype 18" coil and is 0.08g. Setting are High Yeild/Difficult (it blows away the speaker on Normal).

https://youtu.be/JfiJy3o95SE


Cheers,

Stan O

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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  davsgold on Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:38 pm

Looking forward to your field tests with these coils, and if there even better than the 18" prototype coil then were in for a good time..

cheers dave
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  Kon61gold on Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:16 pm

We await with great anticipation towards good/favourable field test outcomes Stan.  Depth advantage has always been & always will be, the main driving factor within any coil/detector combo.

Cheers Kon.  T25
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  joe82 on Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:14 am

good stuff mate cant wait to have a play V09

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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  Stan O on Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:03 am

G'day Dave, Kon and Joe

I'm looking forward to providing a full test report in a few weeks time. This choice of coils and an advancement in technology is something we've all been waiting for. I've got no doubt the coils will easily handle our mineralisation - the prototype ran much like the ML 14" coil without any hiccups. But proof is in the pudding so testing will show the exact performance parameters.

Dave,
Thanks for the feedback - those guys take everything on board: the new coil cable is easy to push through the shaft without a draw wire.

Kon,
I think you were once wondering about detector's recognition of coils. The 18" coil the Z recognises as 19", and the small as 14". For Victoria especially depth gains are important - lots of very deep ground over there.

Joe,
Is this 10x9" coil good for your area? Which other coil sizes you would like to see? There will be a 16x12" and 17x16" heading this way as well.


Cheers,

Stan O

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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  dolandave on Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:25 pm

The coils look like a great addition to the ZED. I had a question, I thought Minelab made these coils with a chip in the coil. Were you able to hack the chip, reverse engineer it, or ???

Thanks
Dave

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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  davsgold on Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:56 pm

dolandave wrote:  The coils look like a great addition to the ZED. I had a question, I thought Minelab made these coils with a chip in the coil. Were you able to hack the chip, reverse engineer it, or ???

Thanks
Dave

G'day dolandave

Yes there is a chip but it's not in the coil as such, it's in the cable plug, so this is why a patch lead is needed to go between the new aftermarket coils and the detector, this way no IP has been breached, I wish there was an easier way but it is what it is.



cheers dave
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  Travelergold on Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:04 pm

Stan, great to see some more choices. Had a good look at 18" that dave was testing. Its amazing some of the knockers are changing there thinking.
With the patch lead dave used his 19" to get working. Will using that patch lead still be good if you use with one of the small coils? My understanding is that 7000 knows which coil is on by the chip in lead. Just curious as we know that if you use extension on a coil for 4500 it affects the coil. The chip I'm thinking could slightly affect results. Not being negative but just wondering if same could apply.

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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  Stan O on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:53 am

G'day Travelergold,

I'll check to see whether my detector recognises the coil sizes and get back to you before my trip. I've used the lead from my stock 14" coil. Personally, I don't think there is any noticeable difference... the patch lead with the chip from 14" married very well to the 18" prototype coil.
Speaking of patch leads, Dave you've done an excellent job with your one!

Done some testing with the new 18" coil today and it seems to have lots more punch. Another few weeks and I'll know for sure.


Cheers,

Stan

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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  joe82 on Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:13 am

hey mate, yeah the little fella would go good in the heavy grassy areas for sure but I think the best all rounder would be a toss up between the 16x12 and the 17x16 I do have a soft spot for the 18' only because I belive the bigger and rounder the better Cool keep us posted mate, PS so the little lead shown saves having to cut any leads right???????? and keeps the chip in the system (silly question I no)cheers joe,

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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  slimpickens on Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:59 am

Travelergold wrote: Its amazing some of the knockers are changing there thinking.

Hi Travelgold, I was and still am a little bit sceptical.  I will gladly eat humble pie if the coils work. It's just that I and a lot of others got burnt by the ML 19" coil  and hope like hell that these new coils WORK especially here in Victoria's highly mineralised ground. And when I say "WORK", I mean extra depth with the 18" coil, and more SDC 2300 like performance (with greater depth) from the 10 x 9". Having Davesgold happy with the 18" coil, is a huge positive endorsement, but I won't put any words in his mouth, he can speak for himself. Here's Hoping, Harry.
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Costs

Post  LONE WOLF XLIX on Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:43 am

Cost of adapter lead $.         ?
Cost of small coil$.             ?
Does adapter  lead come with coil as one unit?
Very interested to know more if possible.
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  davsgold on Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:50 am

LONE WOLF XLIX wrote:Cost of adapter lead $.         ?
Cost of small coil$.             ?
Does adapter  lead come with coil as one unit?
Very interested to know more if possible.

G'day LONE WOLF XLIX

The cost of the patch/adapter lead is: if you make them yourself then the cost is about $12.00 which consists of a male and female 5 pin microphone plugs some heat shrink tube and some solder and hot glue.

Of course you will need a 2nd 5 pin inline plug to put back on the coil cable from which you use the get from either the GPZ14" or the GPZ19" coil, I used the the GPZ19"coil to make up my patch lead and Stan used the GPZ14" coil to make up his patch lead.

Both the original GPZ coils still work perfectly well and can be swapped between the the new aftermarket coil.

The new aftermarket coils will come with a how to diagram on splicing the inline microphone plugs into the coil cable of the GPZ coil plug.

I would hope that Minelab may in the future make a patch/adapter lead as an accessory part for sale and then it would be a win win for everyone.

The cost of the aftermarket coils is at this stage unknown to me as the guys from overseas making the test coils to be tested here in Australia have not given a price range until they get there website and marketing and coil named etc.

To answer the last part of your question, no the patch/adapter lead doesn't come with the coils, but who knows what may happen in the future.

cheers dave
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  davsgold on Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:57 am

joe82 wrote:hey mate, yeah the little fella would go good in the heavy grassy areas for sure but I think the best all rounder would be a toss up between the 16x12 and the 17x16 I do have a soft spot for the 18' only because I belive the bigger and rounder the better Cool keep us posted mate, PS so the little lead shown saves having to cut any leads right???????? and keeps the chip in the system (silly question I no)cheers joe,

G'day joe

The little lead is made from the GPZ19" in my case and the GPZ14" in Stans case and yes this is how the chip stays in the system, the original coils still work by now using this little lead as well so all is good.

It would be great if Minelab would make this an accessory part, we can only wish ay.

cheers dave
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  Travelergold on Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:54 am

Davesgold, "It would be great if Minelab would make this an accessory part, we can only wish ay."
Really? I think pigs might fly first. I suppose we can only wish.

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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  Stan O on Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:49 pm

G'day all,

Joe,
The other two coils will be on their way soon. They have the same tech as the ones I just got, so if those two work well, the other two will be good too. Making a patch lead isn't that complicated, just takes time and patience. It only need to be done once and then can be used with either the aftermarket coils or the stock ones.

Dave, time will tell if ML decide to play along with the patch leads. It will only be to their benefit. When I was buying a detector I was tossing between the GPZ and GPX, nearly went for the other one simply because of the choice of coils.

Slimpickens,
I can assure you that if the coils work well here in WA they'll work anywhere in Australia. I've detected both Vic (mostly around Wedderburn) and WA - both have extreme mineralization but in WA it is somehow more. Not sure whether it is due to salt, more varying ground types or very little topsoil but finding quiet ground over here is much harder than finding gold. I'll be doing extensive testing to make sure the new coil is not a flop like the ML 19". Thanks to you and many other contributors I stayed well clear of that coil. Dave showed me his and no way it could've been my everyday all rounder whereas the 18" prototype stayed on my detector for the entire 6-day trip without giving me any aches and pains, and most importantly - without any loss of sensitivity to small gold.

BTW If anyone is interested, the new technology is available for the GPX detectors as well. They'll send me a test coil soon. I'm not sure of the sizes, but am sure the choice will be amazing.


Cheers,

Stan O


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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  Kon61gold on Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:43 pm

Like you say Stan, proof is in the pudding. If these new size coils, with their newly incorporated technology, ground balance well, as well as hold their stability over mineralized soils, I as well as many other GPZ 7000 users, will be more than happy/satisfied with the outcome. Any signs of depth advantage on or over a variety of gold type/size, over that of the current GPZ 14 or 19 inch coils & I for one will be over the moon.
Blame us not for being a little sceptical, for my prospecting buddies & I had placed a lot of faith in Minelabs long awaited 19 inch GPZ coil, only to be greatly disappointed with the outcome of most our test results, as compared to the performance of its sibling 14x13.
On another note, funny people should think that air tests over positive targets have little or no merit, when the majority of testing done by all the major detector/coil producing companies are on or over targets deliberately buried over/in disturbed soil. Go figure.
I know an air test is just that, a test over a target that has no minerals in between the target & coil, to interfere with its signal response/penetrating characteristics, but ask yourselves this, If we have 2 different brand coils, Identical in size/shape, (both perfectly ground balanced & running smooth/stable on/with the same detector) over the same section of ground, going over the same size target, with one coil showing a clear depth advantage over the other, even though being an air test, does anyone here believe, that if a positive target were to be encountered sitting in its natural  undisturbed in ground state, the coil with the lesser depth in an air test, will prove to go just as deep, or be just as loud over that same size/type target, as the coil with the clear air test depth advantage?  The answer is simply "NO" It will not, for to do so defies logic.  Ground mineralization can work with you or against you at times, depending on the degree or amount of ground variables present on any given day. Variables such that of temperature, ground saturation, type or concentrate of ground minerals present or en counted on any one given spot, can have the tendency to double ones depth, over a certain size/type target, buried in its natural state, whilst at other times, can halve the depth over that same size/shape/type target.
So yes, any coil showing even a slight improvement in depth advantage, over that we currently have in use, is an improvement in the right direction.  

Cheers Kon. T25
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  slimpickens on Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:48 pm

Come on guys, can we not worry about a $12.00 patch lead. There are bigger fish to fry.
Stan, I imagine sales should be starting by Xmas if all your test go well. Will be interested to know how they"re going to sell them. Can't imagine Miners Den, or even Coiltek would sell them. Maybe just on their website or E bay.
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  slimpickens on Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:05 pm

Spot on Kon, a simple little  air test between the 14 x13" Zed coil and the new 18" coil over a five cent piece is all that is going to be required at first.
The 18" coil has to beat the 14" in depth, it's as simple as that.

P.S. Thanks Stan for your great feedback. Cheers, Harry.
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  davsgold on Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:40 pm

While I don't disagree with air tests or test beds with targets buried at various depths and sizes.  The main problem is because you know there is a target there you keep trying to find it and can adjust the settings to get it working.

It is a totally different scenario when out in an area in say WA with no idea where a target may be and have the detector/coil combo able to find it.

If using a test bed I say use the exact same settings that you would use when out detecting and not knowing where the target may be.

An air test over the 5 cent coin is ok as well, but use the same settings your going to be using, and use those same settings when changing between the different coils like the 14"GPZ/19"GPZ or the new aftermarket coils.  After doing same same settings by all means change them up and see if there is a better or worse outcome.   Your settings may be different to mine but that won't matter, just use what your going to be using when out and about detecting.

To do in the great outdoors various testing on an in ground undug target that you locate half a km  away from the vehicle where the other coil is can be a real hassle. Laughing

cheers dave
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  slimpickens on Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:55 pm

I agree with what your saying Dave, ( tuning to the local conditions), but what I want to see is both coils, the 14" and the new 18"maxed out to the Max on the same target on the same detector. I want to see brute horse power. There has to be a difference, (there better be) preferably a clear depth advantage by the 18" coil. Q10
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  Kon61gold on Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:27 pm

Brute Hp stands out from the beginning, leading throughout the gear changes Harry. If it shows a depth advantage on 1 gain, it will show a depth advantage over the entire gain/sensitivity range.
In reality all we want to clearly see by the new 18 inch coil, is an overall better depth advantage, on/over various size/type natural gold nuggets, over that of 19 inch & I'll be more than satisfied with that.  Of course, the greater the depth advantage the 18 inch coil has over that of the 19 inch, the greater the back-flips of joy, will be cheers Q35

Cheers Kon. T25
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  slimpickens on Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:36 am

Kon61gold wrote:
C  In reality all we want to clearly see by the new 18 inch coil, is an overall better depth advantage, on/over various size/type natural gold nuggets, over that of 19 inch & I'll be more than satisfied with that.  Of course, the greater the depth advantage the 18 inch coil has over that of the 19 inch, the greater the back-flips of joy, will be cheers Q35

Cheers Kon. T25

Yes Kon the new coil will have to be tested over all the targets you mentioned, but by changing the target shapes and weights during this initial test, will not in my opinion give you an accurate test to show the difference between the   Zed  14",  Zed 19" and the new 18" coil. As we know, different shapes and weights give us different signals on different coils .  The target has to be the same under all the 3 coils, or else there can be no accurate depth analysis between the 3 coils to tell us which goes deeper. Also, not everyone will have the different  weights and shaped nuggets to do your testing.

PS. Burying the ML 19" coil once and for all will make my day. Twisted Evil
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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  WF2.0 on Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:03 am

I have been getting to know the Z in WA recently and am extremely impressed with it. I previously ran a 45 and elites 14 and 18 but am continually surprised by the depth of nuggets for their size. The Z is extremely sensitive, I am using the 19 ATM and you can feel the horsepower on that coil as well as the weight. Kon you mentioned air tests, it would seem by those the 19 should blow the 14 out of the water so to speak. I'm in the WA gold fields till it heats up and may be able to help with comparisons with the 18. Cheers

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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  Kon61gold on Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:31 pm

Only on paper WF2.0. for that's what all "my" air test results, using the 19 inch GPZ coil, including going over the dozen or so places I had found good gold in the past concluded. It is the standard 14X13 inch GPZ coil, that shows the greatest leap in depth advantage over that of a GPX 4500/5000 using similar in size coils, not the 19 inch.
If you do get the opportunity to compare both the 19 inch GPZ coil, with the newly awaited 18 inch aftermarket coil, will be most appreciated by many on here WF2.0  

Cheers Kon. T25
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GPX coil

Post  Hermann on Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:42 pm

Hi Stan O, At the moment I'm very happy with my 12" NF Evo coil (the only one I have left at the moment), but I bet you quite a few GPX users including me would be very happy with the new technology in coils that's coming for the GPX (we need a name here for the new coil, I would call it the T.W. "The Winner". ) Cheers, Hermann.

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Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  AU10OZ on Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:23 am

Come on guys, can we not worry about a $12.00 patch lead. wrote:
Yes but when you have to slice the end off the lead of your $1200+ coil to make it, not everyone is going to want to do that.
Not to mention Warranty and resale implications.

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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  Stan O on Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:42 am

G'day all,

Just got an update from the manufacturer. The final coil size selection will be:
18" solid
17x16" open spoke
16x15" solid
16x12" solid
10x9" solid

In regards to testing on artificially buried targets/air tests... there are so many factors effecting the end result that it is not very practical - ML spent hundreds of hours testing their 19" coil in a lab , end result...??? The real testing is done in a real goldfield with real targets by experienced prospectors. Direct comparisons will be done, especially on those faint or iffy signals on edge of the detection field. I wouldn't say the new coils go deeper until I'm 100% sure they do on most of the target types/soil varieties.

AU10OZ,
At the moment slicing the cable of the coil is the only way to do it. If you want the new technology, more variety in coil sizes, and less weight... that's the only way. If you don't, you don't! I was very uneasy giving the cable the chop, so was Dave, but for me having and extra advantage equates to more yellow metal being recovered. It's just a mod, people buy and sell modded detectors - there's nothing new with that concept.


Cheers,

Stan O

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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  joe82 on Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:46 pm

cool mate,any photos of the spoked coils the 17x16' may be the wepon of choice around here good work!!!!!!!

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Re: Coming soon... more choice for your 7000

Post  davsgold on Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:48 pm

joe82 wrote:cool mate,any photos of the spoked coils the 17x16' may be the wepon of choice around here good work!!!!!!!

G'day Joe

I think the 17x16 open spoked coil is in this picture of the selection of various coils in the lineup.



cheers dave
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