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Post  Guest on Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:46 am

Gday


I have been looking in to the new Whites tdi pro detector, more out of curiousity than anything, that being aroused by the fact that you can use your aftermarket coiltek and nuggetfinder coils on it.

Seems that there is an australian version of it said to be calibrated for our conditions?, or is that just to stop anyone buying direct from the US at a lower price, now would be the time as our dollar is strong, but if theres a real difference you dont want to get the wrong one and have issues with it.

Just wondering if anyone has any inside information on this machine, seen one in use or used one themselves that can shed any light on whether it is worthwhile or not, as I have been thinking about getting another coin and relic type machine and was wondering if this may do the job and also double as a backup unit or one the wife can use when in the goldfields?

Any info would be appreciated, thanks in advance

cheers

stayyerAU


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Post  CHnColorado on Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:20 pm

Hi StayyerAu.
Wow I can't believe I can contribute to the forum. I have a TDI as well as the GPX 4000 I just bought a few weeks ago. The TDI is a good machine. The Oz version of the TDI comes with a 12" mono round coil, It has expanded gound balance, coarse and fine adj. the filters are more agrgessive than on the first US versions. The signals are sharper and the detector is a little quieter. With a Pulse delay of 10 usec it is a small gold killer, and with a manual GB and with 3 settings for low conductor, high conductor and all conductor audio on targets you can set it up to discriminate out nails and a lot of iron. The TDI is immune to most EMI and I have hunted under 100kw power lines with out a problem of EMI. I have used it on salt dry lakes and hunted coins in the city park and swim area. It is about 10-12% less on raw depth but it is a great detector for the money. Yes it will use any Coiltek or NF coil except the XP NF coil or any phase shift coils.Coils over about 14" will most likely not work best at min Pulse delay but will work fine at 15+ usec delay, for large deep gold. You can read about it at, http://tdi.invisionplus.net/?mforum=tdi&s=6a3f08165763d390cad33bc4df238eaa&act=idx
Hope this helps you a little there is much more to this neat little PI. There is a lot of coils available for it including some new stuff by Razorback coil in Cali and some Jimmy Sierra coils. You may find this a good read on the TDI in WA.
Keep'er Swinging
CH
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Post  Guest on Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:00 pm

You can talk to Tony or Brett here. http://www.goldsearchaustralia.com/ There are also some nice pics on the site.
They are the best guys to deal with and Brett has first hand knowledge of finding gold with one. Yes, the Aussie one is quite different to the original or American one as it has a lot more refinements.

Panther

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Post  Guest on Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:44 am


Gday CH and Panther


Thanks for the info, I have to look into these machines a bit more I think, what I like the sound of is the conductor settings, because even as the minelabs are excellent machines they still lack in the area of descrimination so rubbishy gold bearing ground is usually avoided.

Being able to use coils that I already have on it is also a bonus as well, and because it can be used without all the harness etc it may be just the thing to use when you want to give a spot a quick once over or to use for coin and relic hunting.

cheers

stayyerAU

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Post  Guest on Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:41 pm

Hi stayyerau
I am getting one asap. Trouble is atm I am painting the house ready for market and have just been too busy to even follow it up. I have enough gold put aside to get one.
Hopefully I am moving closer to our 'local' goldfields and as I am retired now you can guess that I will be spending a lot of time pottering about in the bush in the future.
I kept some loops from my 4000 when I sold it so I am fairly well prepared for when it eventuates.

Panther

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Post  nero_design on Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:19 pm

Fine-tune Ground Balance Controls: Course and Fine Tuners precisely balance out the iron mineralization of hot rocks, black sand, and other tough grounds.
Pulse Delay Control: Labeled for best performance settings - Small, Gold, Wet Salt, Large Target.
Threshold Control: Accurately adjust the audio to hear the smaller, deeper signals.
Two powerful 14.4 Volt Lithium-Ion Rechargeable Battery Packs.: Home wall charger and car fast-charger included.
2YR Transferable Australian Warranty.

Price: $2,400

It also accepts Coiltek, Nugget Finder and Minelab coils.

Sounds like someone is aiming directly at Minelab. LOL!
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Post  llanbric on Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:04 pm

I reckon you're right Nero, I wonder how it compares to ML's product.

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Post  Guest on Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:45 pm

From all accounts, It performs extremely well. In some cases has claimed better depth than ML. (remains to be seen) Seems to see small rough gold better. Can avoid a lot of iron in rubbishy ground.
AND, is a REALISTIC price for the performance. Maybe that is why ML sold out. They knew it was coming... lol I have owned an Extreme, a 3000 and a 4000 and there is no way I will be paying big money for another ML machine. But then again, Gold is a fun thing for me. I don't have to rely on it. Another reason I bought my MXT. I can use it for other things as well as gold and will give it to my wife when I get the TDI. rant rant rant Found a sterling silver chain down in my own bush block this morning with the MXT. Who knows how it got there.

Panther

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Post  nero_design on Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:25 pm

Whites make a quality detector. I'd be surprised if it doesn't live up the hype. The only negative thing I could say about the Whites machines is that a lot of users tell me they're fairly complicated to use compared to many other brands. I don't know myself as I haven't used one but I'm open to using one if it will do what I want.

On the other hand, I still recall stories of Whites getting sued in the past for various copyright and trademark infringements AFTER a detector was brought to market. The most recent such incident was only a year or so ago (the Whites V3/Prism) or whatever it was called. They made a public statement before changing some of the features and the name.

Something to note it that the recent SD series of PI detectors (eg SD2200 v2) hasn't been around for over a year or more now. Yet they're still on the catalog and it puzzles me as to why they've been holding back on releasing any sort of SD replacement. Perhaps they won't. BUT....A shrewd business marketer would deliberately wait for a rival to launch a competitive product and then announce their own competitive model. If any legal exchange was to occur, it would maximize damage to an opponent to force a recall after the manufacturing and marketing process was complete. I have absolutely no idea but it might be interesting to watch this play out. After all, many of the features on the new Whites appear from this distance to draw on Minelab patents. 10 patents alone apply to the new GPX-5000 ftw.

But this doesn't affect us detectorists so much. If it works it will be popular. What captures my interest is the lower price because that's going to increase the number of detectors on any given location many times over. So, expect the goldfields to explode with activity as a result of the price drop coupled with an economical downturn coupled with increased gold prices. Going to be thousands more people headed out there with little room for new products as market saturation continues. Thousands more unfilled holes by those greedy for gold yet careless enough to 'do the right thing'. Such bad behavior in a stampede can affect the others who play by the rules.

If this new PI model lives up to the hype I'll consider adding one to my collection for friends to use. Don't forget the interesting new Garrett AT Pro which is SQUARELY aimed are replacing the Minelab X-Terra 705. It would appear that Garrett and Whites have decided to take on the Aussies.





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Post  kon61 on Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:19 pm

G'day Gents.

I'll just throw in my two bobs worth here. The TDI PRO, (as compared to the TDI of Europe)was designed to handle our Australian soil conditions. What CHnColorado states in his post is quite accurate.It also can handle a variety of mono coils(Nugget Finder,Coiltek or Minelab Commander). The three best being the 14x9 Coiltek,14x9 Nugget Finder or the Minelab 11 inch round Commander(the later being my personal preference) for both outright depth sensitivity and superb discrimination capability on false signals (in hot ground) as well as on iron targets,at almost full depth.
As for outright depth using the same sized coils as that on the GPX series detectors,in my opinion,rank it at around +or- 20% less depth,than that of the GPX series,under most ground conditions.

Cheers kon61.
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Post  nero_design on Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:32 pm

kon61 wrote:
...As for outright depth using the same sized coils as that on the GPX series detectors,in my opinion,rank it at around +or- 20% less depth,than that of the GPX series,under most ground conditions.

Cheers kon61.

Good information Kon61. With people falling over themselves to buy special coils or to 'mod' their detectors just to gain a fraction more depth, I wonder if 20% less depth that a ML GPX will be a deal breaker or not? I'm guessing this would mean the serious prospectors won't jump ship. 20% is a LOT when just 1 inch more depth might mean the difference between hearing or ignoring a 1ounce nugget at a foot or so. Remember that the goldfields have been well plucked in the last 25 years so depth is important... especially in WA where much of the heavy gold is often a little deeper and not just scattered on the surface. Perhaps the crucial issue will be if the new Whites handles the mineralization as well here as they hope. Didn't Charles Garrett have to fly down here (to see for himself) after failing to grasp why his detectors couldn't handle our soil?
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Post  evan2010 on Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:53 pm

hi all, I see there's an article in the November issue of Gold gem & treasure magazine about Field testing the Whites TDI Pro if anybody's interested
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Post  kon61 on Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:05 pm

G'day Nero.

Yes Charles Garret did fly down here to check why his detectors couldn't handle our mineralized ground conditions,(hence the birth of the Garret Infinium L/S),but so did Eric Foster.He's been working on improving the handling of ground balance in hot ground over the last couple of years.I too am also concerned about the lesser depth,for to us who have been in the game of gold detecting for many a year,you and i both know that half an inch less depth on targets is enough to worry us,but a whole two inches out of ten,will just about kill us mentally.Overall though one must consider the price difference,as well as the detectors discriminating capabilities(which will obviously suit some people better than others).Less overall depth,but more ground coverage due to less digging of iron targets.

Cheers kon61.
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Post  davsgold on Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:59 pm

kon61 wrote: It also can handle a variety of mono coils(Nugget Finder,Coiltek or Minelab Commander). The three best being the 14x9 Coiltek,14x9 Nugget Finder or the Minelab 11 inch round Commander(the later being my personal preference) for both outright depth sensitivity and superb discrimination capability on false signals (in hot ground) as well as on iron targets,at almost full depth.
Cheers kon61.

With the discrimination being at almost full depth, is that with a DD coil or the mono coils that you mention in your post ?

cheers dave
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Post  Jonathan Porter on Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:06 pm

Dave you have to be a little bit realistic about depth claims especially with discrimination. The question is, if Minelab have not been able to come up with a full depth reliable discriminator, what chance do the others have? This is not putting the others down, just pointing out that if the market leaders understand what the limitations then chances are the others won't either?

The ground and the constantly shifting time constants of the targets we seek are the limiting factor, both are immeasurably different and unique in a constantly changing world, all things that go against discrimination.

Sorry to burst your bubble, Sad

JP


Last edited by Jonathan Porter on Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  davsgold on Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:13 pm

No need to be sorry JP, I know as well as you that ML has no rival nor any serious competition. Just asking wether they are using a DD coil or a Mono in their post. I know that only DD coils work for discrimination on the ML machine.

cheers dave
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Post  Jonathan Porter on Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:16 pm

My apologies Dave, you lead your post with the statement, as if it was fact
davsgold wrote: With the discrimination being at almost full depth.....
and I answered with what I feel are the facts about discrimination in mineralised soils.

From memory the Whites will discriminate with a Mono or DD coil or at least my GS5B does anyway.

JP
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Post  davsgold on Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:22 pm

Yes my mistake JP that first part was part of the other blokes post and I should have had "almost full depth" around it. I just find it interesting that a mono coil can discriminate! I've not heard of that before.

cheers dave
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Post  Jonathan Porter on Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:40 pm

The SD2200D could discriminate with a Mono coil.

JP
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Post  kon61 on Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:02 pm

G'day Dave.

"Mono coils Dave".Although as JP stated in his post,no discriminator,on any current metal detector,let alone a pulse,can be trusted to work 100% at depth not alone full depth. I've proven that in the past even with VLFs failing to discriminate out good from bad targets at depth,(for reasons as Jonathan stated). This is even more evident with the current pulse detectors,being even more inaccurate with the current discriminating systems available today.
Even after saying all that though,the TDI PRO still has,what i believe to be,the best tone discriminator of any pulse detector on the market,when used in conjunction with the smaller aforementioned mono coils.

Cheers kon61.


Last edited by kon61 on Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Guest on Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:10 pm

I don't think there will be any copyright infringements with the TDI. As most know, the TDI is based on Eric Fosters Goldscan 5 circuitry and Eric worked with Whites to develop it into a commercially marketable Whites Brand. (even has the same pulse timing adjustment knob) Eric is and always has been the PI Guru.
JP... did you buy that bike, or are you just trying it on for size?

Panther

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Post  kon61 on Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:33 pm

G'day JP.

Jonathan,i still have and use a 2200d with large DDcoils for the much hotter ground around the Kingower/Wedderburn belt.In the quieter less mineralized ground of bedded creeks and gully's,where Ive used mono coils in the past,there is a slight tone difference between iron targets and alloy but only within shallow depth,and depending on target size.Iron targets buried deeper than 8 inches or so (once again depending on size and at times ground conditions) even when faint,sound off just like good positive alloy targets.

Cheers kon61.
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